Who Crashed in NC??

Rob Mears · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:47 pm

Dave Zeuchel was another I believe.

I too would like to review the various crash reports and see if it's pilot error, engines, systems, or what (if anything) is common among these accidents. Sometimes we forget that these are fighting jets and as such they are extremely demanding of their pilots and ground crew.

Being a takeoff accident with a very experienced pilot at the helm, my initial feeling is that it was an flame out or control surface malfunction, but I'll be the first to suggest we refrain from too much speculation until the facts are at hand. Two jets in two weeks is a tough pill to swallow.

Rest in peace my man.

lmritger · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:00 pm

I fully agree with looking for the cause and not wildly speculating... after all, the FAA doesn't just let any old yahoo fly these things, all of these men were excellent pilots. But with all these fatal Sabre crashes, I'd think it would be important to look very closely at all the circumstances and see if there's anything that can be pinpointed and improved to help keep these birds in the air.

Lynn

Chuck Gardner · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:02 pm

aero-news.net has released the pilots name and details of the crash.

Mike · **Joined:** Tue May 04, 2004 8:54 am **Posts:** 3331

Very sad indeed. I had the pleasure of meeting Mr Fuller and being shown over his aircraft at Sun 'n Fun last year. A nicer example of an F-86 and a more enthusiastic owner you couldn't hope to find.

Thoughts are with his family and friends at this sad time.

Dennis Bergstrom · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:00 pm

Very sad news!! Especially with the loss of the pilot. My sincere condolences to his family.

Here's what the Sabre looked like at Oshkosh 2005 - a very beautiful award winning restoration.

Dennis

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:10 pm

lmritger wrote:

Echoing another poster... why do these things have such problems? Steve Snyder, Jimmy Rossi, now this one... and there's at least two others I'm leaving out... what's the story? Are Sabres that delicate?

Don't forget the long list of guys that died in Mustangs, and Corsairs, and every other type of warbird in the 50s and 60s.

There's nothing wrong with a Sabre that's not "wrong" with every other high performance single-pilot aircraft out there -- they're not terribly forgiving of anything.

Forgotten Field · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:54 pm

I had a very short but great correspondence with Wyatt, just a few weeks ago. He tried to get me to go to KOSH, but I begged off due to committments. In the few conversations we had, he sounded like one of the finer people in the world. He was totally dedicated to his work and his play. We talked about operating the F86 and we spent a bit of time discussing some restoration points. He sent me an autographed photo of the airplane and enjoyed hearing how my kids enjoyed it. I am so sad this happened. My prayers are with his family.

Don Martin · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:24 pm

Here's a shot of her around 1991 at BIA. Condolences to the family.

Use this for the Registry if you like, Scott.

stumac · **Joined:** Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:19 pm **Posts:** 185

Here is my take on these jet warbird accidents. The engine technology in the 1950's just wasn't what it is today. Todays materials and more precise manufacturing processes have made the jet engines a lot more reliable today. The thing is that when these airplanes were owned by Uncle Sam you just ejected at the first sign of problems then went and got into another, no big deal (sort of). Now these are highly prized possesions and these guys are riding them into the ground trying to save them.
Flying any high performance aircraft is inherrently dangerous and especially these jet warbirds will get you killed real fast.

oscardeuce · **Joined:** Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:34 am **Posts:** 1021

One More Roll

"We toast our hearty comrades who have fallen from the skies,

and were gently caught by God’s own hands to be with him on high,

To dwell among the soaring clouds they have known so well before,

From victory roll to tail chase, at heaven’s very door.

And as we fly among them, we’re sure to hear their plea,

Take care, my friend, watch your six, and do one more roll for me.”

Darrel Whitcomb, Nail25

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

Randy Haskin wrote:

There's nothing wrong with a Sabre that's not "wrong" with every other high performance single-pilot aircraft out there -- they're not terribly forgiving of anything.

I don't see any mention of the ice cream parlor incident, but this is what I see on the NTSB database under F-86:

Quote:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=52427&key=0
3/23/1976 MOJAVE, CA CANADAIR F-86 N8544
MISJUDGED DISTANCE,SPEED,AND ALTITUDE- UNDERSHOOT, GEAR COLLAPSED

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=55161&key=0
9/27/1976 FT LAUDERDALE, FL CANADAIR F-86E N8687D Nonfatal
WHEELS-UP LANDED ON FOAMED RUNWAY NOSE GR DOWN LINE RUPTURED

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 0697&key=1
4/25/1987 SHAFTER, CA NORTH AMERICAN F-86F N86Z Fatal(1)
TURBINE ASSEMBLY..FAILURE,TOTAL- THE EMERGENCY HYDRAULIC SYSTEM WAS NOT BEING USED. FURTHERMORE, THE EJECTION SEAT WAS DISABLED AND THE PILOT WAS NOT WEARING A PARACHUTE.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 2416&key=1
5/2/1993 SANTA ANA, CA CANADAIR F-86E MK.6 N3842J Fatal(1)
THE PILOT'S INADEQUATE PLANNING/DECISION CONCERNING PERFORMANCE OF AN AEROBATIC MANEUVER, AND HIS FAILURE TO MAINTAIN ADEQUATE ALTITUDE/CLEARANCE ABOVE THE RUNWAY DURING RECOVERY FROM THE MANEUVER.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 6915&key=1
10/6/1996 SALINAS, CA North American F-86 N186SE Nonfatal
During rollout, the pilot noted a hydraulic brake system failure. Engine driven #3 system auxiliary hydraulic boost pump had failed internally.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 8108&key=1
6/1/1997 BROOMFIELD, CO Canadair F-86E MK.6 N86EX Fatal(1)
Inadequate planning and decision making by the pilot in starting the aerobatic maneuver at an insufficient altitude to successfully complete the maneuver.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 9084&key=1
6/19/1999 MOUNT HOLLY, NJ Canadair F-86E N186JC Fatal(1)
A warning in the Aircraft Operating Instructions stated that, "Where flight is necessary with low fuel state pilot should avoid nose high attitudes."

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_i ... 5436&key=1
11/4/2002 San Isidro, Dominican Republic Canadair F-86 N30CJ Fatal(1)
The airplane was in a slight climb attitude, wings level, at an estimated airspeed of 250 knots, when a "large ball of fire" was observed coming from the aircraft tailpipe. The airplane touched down in controlled flight on a marshy area, no attempts to eject were noted.

I understand that Zeuschal's engine failure may have been induced due to overtemps on starting using auto fuel- but that is hearsay.

Lynn Allen · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:51 pm

I understand that Zeuschal's engine failure may have been induced due to overtemps on starting using auto fuel- but that is hearsay.

I also read that he (DZ) tried to land with the wing tanks still attached and a the seat was hot?? So sad indeed, you only get one chance, a slim one with HP aircraft durning an emergency.

Lynn

RickH · **Posted:** Mon Jul 24, 2006 10:29 pm

Jimmy Rossi's was a combination of things. I understand that things were looking OK but there was a junk car or truck that was hiding in the tall grass he landed in. Reports I read said that he probably would have been OK if he hadn't hit the junker.

Paul Krumrei · **Joined:** Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:06 pm **Posts:** 1757

I dont care for the video on the news station they had...they had shown the wreck, with the terrible yellow tarp out, I am assuming on the pilot.

God Bless the pilot and my prayers are with him and the family members and friends.

Saabmeister · **Joined:** Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:56 pm **Posts:** 170

bdk wrote:

I don't see any mention of the ice cream parlor incident...

Hapened on Sept. 24, 1972. Crashed into a Farrell's.

It's listed in the database as a Canadair Mk. 5 http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=66685&key=0 .

More info here: http://www.check-six.com/Crash_Sites/Sa ... h_site.htm

And a picture here: http://www.sacbee.com/static/archive/ne ... rrells.jpg

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