Warbird Information Exchange

I hate over-long flying programmes - around three hours is plenty! I avoid anything that starts at 10am and finishes at 6pm - I run out of stamina to keep looking at the sky that long and can guarantee that the two acts I particularly want to see will bookend the day. Reno is the exception, but then it's not just an airshow...

Unless it's a specialist show like Flying Legends then a good variety is essential, and contrast types in the running order, such as glider, then jet fighter, then airliner...

Me, I particularly like vintage warbirds, vintage airliners, vintage anything really, unlimited aerobatics and anything unusual. Oh and crazy flying!

In the UK, Flying Legends and Shuttleworth are perfect. The Tiger Club used to run excellent shows as well which were straight out of barnstorming days. In the US, the best shows I have been were a PoF show at Chino and Old Rhinebeck! Both were delightful, even though Rhinebeck was curtailed due to a nasty wind straight across that demanding little strip!

Writing just as a long-time visitor and some-time volunteer, here are my likes, hates, and don't-minds about airshows:

I LIKE:

* Non-big-iron (or non-iron). Too few airshows respect the antiques, primary trainers, light transports, L- and U-birds. I realize they don't even show up on the ICAS popularity pools, but I love watching Wacos, Tiger Moths, Cranes/Bobcats, and Sentinels. It kills me when the nicest airplane on the field is a Waco ATO and it gets ignored because it doesn't have 1500 horsepower. But they must be allowed to fly closer to the crowd than the F-16s or even the Mustangs, to the extent permitted, or they can't be appreciated properly.

* Variety from year to year. There doesn't have to be a big theme each year, just some effort to attract or invite a little something different.

* Free water stations in the crowd area. FINA/CAF does this and it is wonderful that people don't have to choose between $3.00 cokes versus dehydration in 100-degree heat. Concession people might not like it, but medics treating folks for heatstroke do.

* Airshow web sites that tell me what will be flying when, what won't be flying, and are kept up-to-date. Where warbirds are concerned, they should say WHICH P-47, not just "P-47".

* Gates that open early and close late. I want to be on the field at 7:00 am and/or leave at 8:00 pm.

I DON'T MIND:

* Almost any kind of aerial act, and I don't even insist on variety. I've enjoyed all-military-jet shows, all-warbird shows, and all-flippy-flop-Pitts shows. I've enjoyed mixed shows as well. Any formula can work if the fundamentals of good airshows are followed, although of course not all will draw the same size of crowd.

* Roped-off airplanes. Not 100 feet away like in England, but just a couple of feet away. That way, the crew can stand next to the plane and chat with the crowd and sign autographs, and even escort someone under the rope for a close look now and then, without being distracted by having to peel kids off the plane. It allows cleaner viewing/photos of the planes, too, without people in the way and ugly yellow tape stretched around the tips. Maybe I have a cynical view of human nature, but I observe that spectators have been damaging airplanes at airshows for over 90 years and believe that they will never stop if they are allowed too close.

I HATE:

* Jet trucks, walls of fire, and other things that take the "air" out of airshow. Those things would draw plenty of people if they booked the airport on a separate weekend and just had those acts. They could call it a "flame and noise show" or just a "stupidity show" and let the airshow be an airshow. I also suspect, although I can't prove, that the spectators who come to an airshow specifically to see jet trucks and big explosions (and their offspring) are the ones most likely to do chin-ups on pitot tubes and generally cause problems both for the planes and people who came to see planes.

* Opaque crowd-line fences, which require even the front rows to stand up to see anything, as opposed to simple ropes.

* Overly loud public address systems and speakers placed in front of the crowd where they obstruct viewing and ruin photographs.

* Airshow announcers who have not done their homework or, worse, have been repeating the same misinformation for 30 years. I have a low opinion of "professional" airshow commentators and generally prefer to hear (and think maybe the local crowd also prefers) a local broadcast personality with the assistance of one or more knowledgeable local guys who can keep the info accurate.

* That horrible Lee Greenwood song. Please don't make me listen to that again.

August

I've always wondered why Oshkosh is the only place that I seen that showcases an aircraft on the ground ie Bud Anderson and P-51. I think this is an interesting concept, that should be explored by TOM and other like shows.

I think this could really add something extra to any show. Having the Pilot talk about the flying characteristics, maybe have some panels removed, talk about the contruction and efforts to keep it flying. Session ends with a flight demonstration.

Also, a forum tent for honored guests, so they can tell thier story, sell thier books, have meet/greet autograph session. We do this at our fly-in down in San Antonio.

Just mt thoughts

Warren

Warren;
We did that at Corsairs Over Connecticut last year and it was a great event, a lot less expensive than a full-blown airshow, and much more hands on and personal.
Jerry

...just to add to this discussion, another thought or two...

I think the best "airshows" have a/c actually flying (what a concept).

It is disheartening to attend an airshow and not see all the types on static display actually in the air at some point. When I can, I always attend aircraft arrival day as that is the only time some a/c fly during the weekend. Often the arrival fly-bys are much closer to the viewer than allowed during the actual airshow.

I volunteer most years at Oshkosh and wish they had just one more rule about the warbirds. Since all the a/c flew in, if you want your a/c judged for an award, it has to fly in at least one Warbird airshow after judging is completed. I won't mention any names but, what a disappointment to see a beautifully restored and truly rare a/c on static display and never see it fly during an airshow. This happens often enough at OSH to be truly disappointing for a warbird buff like me.

On the plus side, a big thanks to all the pilots/owners who go out of their way to fly the a/c in the airshows AND actually talk to people attending the airshow. Some of the best times I have had was listening to the owner/pilot/restorer talking about and pointing out significant items/concepts/work on the a/c.

And, a huge vote for the tight formation flying routines of both similar and dis-similar a/c, including the various Heritage Flights. One of the best I ever enjoyed was a P51 and a modern fighter in tight "aerobatic" formations/maneuvers at Batavia (mid-90's). I could not believe the precision and grace at the extremes of the performance envelopes of both a/c.

Finally, here's another vote for "performance" routines vs. tail chase. I am very happy to watch warbirds fly, but even happier (and thankful) to watch Vlado, Howard, et al demonstrate their experience and skill.

Thanks to all of you owners & pilots who share flying their a/c in their natural element...blue skies.

All the aircraft at Corsairs Over Connecticut flew, they just didn't perform aerobatics (non-waivered airspace), and they didn't all fly at once. The focus was mainly on the ground with the veterans and factory workers that were being honored.

I believe that if the aircraft is on the field, you should fly it at, somepoint, for the public. Many shows have budget restrictions and can't afford to fly all the static aircraft. We are doing the airshow in Terre Haute, Indiania in a few weeks and the B-17 that is scheduled to be there will be static only all weekend. Sad.
Blue skies,
Jerry

The sun has to be behind me, or at least not directly in front, like TOM, or another midwest show, Elkhart IN. I hate canopy covers. I know why they are on the planes, but I refuse from a photography standpoint to take a picture of the plane. I hate crime tape or barriers around planes. That is why I enjoy OSH so much, with rare exception you can walk right up to the plane. Again, I understand that many crowds are not like OSH, barriers make lousy photos though.

That being said, I can find enjoyment, and something to photograph at every show I have been to. As one photographer has said, "If it flys, shoot it".

_________________
"I love the smell of racing gas in the morning"
www.timadamsphotography.com

Tell the airshow announcers to:

1) Shutup. I didn't come here to listen to you describe the Mustang's "Rolls-Royce Allison engine". I came to hear the Mustang, not you or your bloody music.

2) If you're going to talk (I'd really prefer you just didn't) keep it to a bare minimum and for God's sake do your homework (see above).

Non-Waivered Airspace. Amen brother.

I haven't been around the airshow thing for long, but the absolute best time I have had was at airshows that seemed more like a bunch of buddies hanging out and having a good time showing their airplanes and doing some flying. The breaking point to this seems to be waivered airspace. Once you have that, everything changes. One faa dude in the morning says ok, the afternoon guy says no. The crowd goes from a bunch of friends and friendly people, to Herkemer and and his ciggarette five feet away from a pool of 100ll under a T28 flippin you crap about not seeing what you're upset about, until you start calling the cap kids over, then he's rolling out to harass another line of aircraft with tatoo mommy and the 3 gangbanger wannabe rugrats.

I know that a lot of orgs have to go big to accomplish what they need, and I do like some of the aspects of the bigger shows, but I like the smaller ones better as an overall experience.

The ones in Auburn Ca and Half Moon Bay Ca are great examples. Warbirds and Vintage all together. Fly if you want. Don't if you don't. It's cool.

_________________
DEEP THOUGHTS BY KIDS:
"If we could just get everyone to close their eyes and visualize world peace for an hour, imagine how serene and quiet it would be until the looting started. Age 15 "


Deep Thoughts,
Jack Handy

O.P. hit on some valid issues and I agree the smaller events lend themselves to an ideal warbird airshow, but the organizers and participants have to execute. The Thunder on the Lakeshore/Manitowoc Wisconsin airshow is a great example of a well organized (mostly warbird) show covering all the bases: Small, accessible venue (always close to food/beverage/potty), big sponsors so cheap admission ($6.00!) for Herkemer and company (sorry O.P.), access to the aircraft but an enthusiastic cadre of flightline volunteers (Rhonda and Co. were awesome!) provided more than adequate security to counter Herkemer's delinquents; competent air boss, waivered airspace with a reasonable FAA rep, and a wide variety of flying and static aircraft from R/C and model rockets, flip flops, warbirds, military, USAF demo jets/Heritage Flight--a schedule that didn't drag on and go alllll day long. The organizers really showed great hospitality to the airshow participants and it had that feel of a bunch of buddies and enthusiasts really coming together as a unit to make the event work, fly and display (almost everyone did) their craft and gather later for "debriefing" over adult beverages. This show is gathering momentum fast and drawing more varied aircraft (Chuck Greenhill brought his Grumman Duck--cool!), more warbirds every year and I can't wait to go next year. Another great element is the fly-in side of it where anyone can fly in for breakfast in the morning and have better than half the day to stroll the flightline, take pictures, chat with pilots/owners and crew chiefs before the airspace closes in the afternoon for the show. From my perspective as a warbird nut and participant, this show struck an ideal balance and was done very well-- and no jet truck or drunk farmer-in-the-cub routines! The Waukegan Air Show north of Chicago is Sept 9th and is a small, easily accessible event with a number of interesting warbirds attending/flying. Might be worth a look if you don't live too far away.

Anyway, O.P.'s got a point about the Feds and perhaps that's luck of the draw, but I'm convinced crowd problems can be overcome with good flightline organization and (reasonable) security planning. It's on the owners to ask the organizers for help with any specific security needs on their aircraft, like keeping folks from sitting under a wing that drips fuel.

Having said that, I've been to a smaller show that made the fly-in folks (warbirds and general aviation) feel like they were an imposition--parked in a roped off area on the far side of the ramp--it was strictly about Blues or T-Birds at show center and everything else was an afterthought. Too bad since the airport is ideally compact, and there are tons of warbirds a short flight away that could really add interest to the show.

http://www.manitowocairshow.com/

I am a volunteer with the Wings Over Houston Airshow and the coordinator for our Heroes & Legends autograph tent. I have been able to gather a few WWII Vets. Here is the list so far http://www.wingsoverhouston.com/woh_att ... graph_tent




Which show is this?

Tim Landers
CAF West Houston Sqdn.

I've organized a couple of Veterans Day Fly-ins at Falcon Field in Mesa Az for a few years and here is what I found. First from a crowd standpoint. Make sure you have plenty of parking that can be easily accessed and eggressed. Nothing worse than spectators that are already upset because they had a hard time parking. Lots of restrooms in various locations. Water,water,water. A couple of food vendors that are reasonably priced. Secondly, the performers. Invite anyone already on your field to display their warbird or classic aircraft and come over for an evening barbeque. Most of our guys were static. The few that we did have fly, were given some fuel and their flights were spaced out so that something was in the air maybe ten minutes every half hour. All of our CAF aircraft were selling rides so that provided more flying as well. Feed your performers and static guys and be sure to personally thank them for their participation. Trade show. Open up part of your facility for vendors. Hobby shops, model airplane clubs, local EAA chapter, CAP, Military recruiters and we usually hosted a special guest or guests such as the Tuskeegee Airmen or a particular bomb group to sell books and sign autographs. With all this said, our goal was to make this a family oriented event and affordable. Admission was only $5 and hot dogs were $2 and soda was $1. During the event, our organzing committee was milling around asking the public what they thought of the event and without exception people were very pleased with it. We also made a point of sending invitations to those residential areas that lived near the runways so they could come out and see that the airport really could be a good neighbor. We did not have waivered airspace but the tower guys were great in accomodating several low passes and such. We did provide them with an approximate time schedule for flying but the revenue rides were sporadic. By the way, we did make pretty good money. Alas, our parking area has been leased so we are unable to continue with the event but it was fun while we did it.

Also, Hey Bill, I just delivered the wings for the Fairey Swordfish up to QG aviation in Ft Collins and saw your Spit. When do you expect to be flying again? And if you ever have a need for hangar space, give us a call in Mesa Az. We usually have room and the weather is perfect for flying in winter.

I gotta' agree with the troops about some of the announcers. SHUT UP!
There's one particular "color commentator" at Duxford that has such a heavy French accent that you can't understand half of what he's saying anyway.

Mudge the cunning linguist

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Land of the free because of the brave

Which show is this?

Tim,

My father and brother are owners of Texas Heritage airpark. It is located off of IH-10 between Seguin and San Antonio, in a small town called New Berlin. They have a fly-in every March, and have been doing this for the last 7 years with no signs of slowing down. Typical to any event when the weather is good the turn out is good, we have had years with over 120 a/c and a dozen honored guests. Normally a good turn out of Stearmans and L-birds. It is a free event, however, we ask for donations with the proceeds going to the volunteer fire dept.

While, this is a fly-in event. it's success like any other aviation event depends on the hard work of a volunteer staff.

http://www.heritageairpark.com/flyin.html


2006 Honored Guests group pic, as you can see by the pic the field is suffering from a good ol Texas drought


2005 Honored Guests, father is on the far left


Rey Gallardo, Mexican Fighter Pilot flew P-47s, still fitting nicely in his uniform


My brother taxing 530 and Robbie Vadjos with the option