What just happened at Reno?

[bluehawk15]

See guys? Our mods aren't just hammers, they have good input as well as keeping the threads straight!

[WIXMOD-Alpha]

And it gets worse... just found out that one of those lost on the ground was a TORA pilot...
I still haven't heard anything from the guys from our airfield that went.

[wingman1]

just had to post this.

High Flight by John Magee



Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,

And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

Sunwards I’ve climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds – and done a thousand things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there,

I’ve chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air,

Up, up the long delirious burning blue

I’ve topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

Where never lark, or even eagle, flew;

And, while with silent, lifting mind I’ve trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of god.

[AmericanSoldier15u]

And it gets worse... just found out that one of those lost on the ground was a TORA pilot...
I still haven't heard anything from the guys from our airfield that went.

I haven't put any input intothis thread when it comes to feelings and opinions because I knew some people there that barely escaped without scratches, and I'll keep it that way, although I will say it was horrific and a complete accident and inhope the airshow world in entirety isn't affected too much by a crazy accident that, as much as it could have been prevented, we don't know that and could have been just plain freak accident.

My question is: if there truly was a Tora pilot lost, do we know which one, a name, and which squadron he was with?

[ZRX61]

It appears to me that the initial impact point was clearly *within* the rows of box seats (just outboard of the second row and before the third?).  
Wade

9th Photo on this page shows what appears to be an impact crater just to the left of the smashed cooler in the lower left corner just in front of the seats:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plane.html

[snj5]

I feel pretty sure that much beyond three or four seconds, the pilot was G-LOCd and probably out of control of the aircraft for the remainder of flight. There is a good picture of oil-canning of the rear fuselage prior to impact on another website also suggesting a very high G-load.



The accelleration to tin can the fuselage is very high. And, as we age, the time of useful consciousness prior to G-LOC may decrease normally. With the combined factors of rapid g onset rate, and immense stick pressures it is likely to me that no could have recovered the aircraft.


A terrible waste and I am filled with sadness for the dead and injured.

[Flat 12x2]

I have to agree with Randy's assessment. I was 30-40 yards to the east of the accident and there was no control over that plane and he came in with full power.

+ 2 on that, a video I saw yesterday showed the Ghost pull up sharply then enter a lazy roll to the right which continued all the way to impact.

[Invader26]

Randy is correct. These is no correlation between the various fatal accidents of the past year. The aircraft types and folks involved originate from widely varied sources and backgrounds. Military "stand-downs" are generally held to take stock of a situation/s that have occurred within units or that service activity where there are possible common threads. This is the basis of an SMS.

Chaps after the storm hopefully comes the calm and we'll all review our behaviour in life just a little...

Let Jimmy and others leave a positive legacy.

[CoastieJohn]

It appears to me that the initial impact point was clearly *within* the rows of box seats (just outboard of the second row and before the third?).  
Wade

9th Photo on this page shows what appears to be an impact crater just to the left of the smashed cooler in the lower left corner just in front of the seats:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plane.html

I went to that website and was watching the streaming video of the event from loadedtv/livestream.com.

Something that caught my eye not directly related to the mishap but does show the volatile emotion of the people who were there. At minute 45:41 you will see a guy in a red shirt, yellow/brown ball cap get into an altercation with a guy in a white shirt with a round white hat. Based on the physical motions it appears the red shirt guy is trying to get the white shirt guy to do something. I'm speculating the red shirt guy was security??? At minute 46:21 you see the guy in the white shirt run back into the area and grab a female's hand and begin to walk back out of the area. The white shirt guy walks past the red shirt guy with female in tow at 46:31. The red shirt guy goes after the white shirt guy and throws him to the ground. The female and other spectators stand there looking at the red shirt guy on the white shirt guy.

I don't know what the altercation was about but this is a great demo of the high emotion that day.

[Chicoartist]

Amazing photo! Thanks for posting that.

You guys are the experts when it comes to working on and flying these things, but as somebody who spends my days literally analyzing the shapes and lines of these machines, specifically the Mustang, I "see" the entire tail section aft of the "oil-canned" area with a definite offset from the longitudinal "flow" of the forward section, and maybe even twisted a degree or two to the right. I'd love a wider shot to be more certain. May be an obvious "duh - you're not the only one who sees this" observation since the buckle is of course due to a significant bending or twisting force, but that's my first visual impression. Let me stare at it for five minutes and I'm sure I'll see it differently -

Wade

[ZRX61]

The red shirt guy goes after the white shirt guy and throws him to the ground. The female and other spectators stand there looking at the red shirt guy on the white shirt guy.

I don't know what the altercation was about but this is a great demo of the high emotion that day.

I've never heard a good thing said about Reno security...

[Mudge]

My vote's with the "no stand down" troops.

Mudge the concerned

ps...I'm sure that'll have a lot of influence with the FAA.

[DoraNineFan]

Something that caught my eye not directly related to the mishap but does show the volatile emotion of the people who were there. At minute 45:41 you will see a guy in a red shirt, yellow/brown ball cap get into an altercation with a guy in a white shirt with a round white hat. Based on the physical motions it appears the red shirt guy is trying to get the white shirt guy to do something. I'm speculating the red shirt guy was security??? At minute 46:21 you see the guy in the white shirt run back into the area and grab a female's hand and begin to walk back out of the area. The white shirt guy walks past the red shirt guy with female in tow at 46:31. The red shirt guy goes after the white shirt guy and throws him to the ground. The female and other spectators stand there looking at the red shirt guy on the white shirt guy.

I don't know what the altercation was about but this is a great demo of the high emotion that day.

I watched that exchange for the whole unedited video. The red shirt security guy was being a jerk if he was preventing the man from reaching a loved one, who was perhaps injured. Taking a distraught man to the ground was low, even by rent-a-cop standards. Later in the video, the man who was taken to the ground was seen walking into the damage area alone.

[CH2Tdriver]

I have to agree with Randy's assessment. I was 30-40 yards to the east of the accident and there was no control over that plane and he came in with full power.

+ 2 on that, a video I saw yesterday showed the Ghost pull up sharply then enter a lazy roll to the right which continued all the way to impact.

Originally I agreed with that assesment until I saw this newly posted video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaWB_7RGTQ4

It is taken from across the field apparently outside the airport, and shows the impact (which we have not seen) from an opposite angle. You see the aircraft make it's final plunge but then look closely at 0:11, just before impact there is a rapid roll to the Left. I've watched it numerous times, it is definately to the left and is rapid. I am now inclined to think that if G-LOC was induced, Mr Leeward may have come out of it at the last second and did in fact make an attempt to steer away from the crowd.

[Kyleb]

The accelleration to tin can the fuselage is very high.

I've read in several places over the years that oil canning and a few popped rivets in the fuselage are common (that may be overstating things) in the highest power, highest performing racers. Putting 3,000 hp or more into an airframe designed for half that really wracks things. Add in the speeds, and the structure is pushed far harder than it ever was in service.

Anyone with first hand knowledge care to comment?