B-17 Liberty Belle fire & landing in Oswego,Ill, EVERYONE OK

[DryMartini]

Which B-17's are being restored to airworthy condition?
How many B-17's are currently flying and what are they?

You can look here for a list:
http://www.aerovintage.com/b17loc.htm

[CH2Tdriver]

Meaning no disrespect to those running it now (and I think it's a great "mid-sized" show anyway), I don't think it will ever regain that "8 4-engine bombers" status unless some billionaire were to take over or underwrite it. It's simply a different business climate now, and with fuel and operating costs, the 1941HAG is not the Rod Lewis museum when it comes to funding an airshow. They can't afford to outlay all of that money and then have bad weather, imho. The area just isnt supported by a large amount of facilities either, hotels, restaurants, etc. At the time of the last big bomber show ('92?), a B-17 probably went for $120,000 and fuel was probably $1.29/gallon (not to mention insurance and engine costs nowadays).
Rich

Thanks for that reply, and I meant no disrespect to the HAG guys either, I'm just darn glad someone is putting on a show there. My dad's house is not for from there in Leroy so he used to take me and my younger brothers when we were kids. Now I take my boys up there every year, so we've got 3 generations going tp the show every year now.
I guess I just miss the older days and want my kids to be able to see what I did.

Rich K., Yes I'll be up at Geneseo this year starting on Friday for arrivals. B-17 Guy hope to see you there, try to seek out all the WIX'ers. Geneseo could grow a little bit bigger if there were a sponsor, but in this day and age those with big $$ are hard to come by. I was at the old show in 88 and 93 and they were amazing. Still I like the present atmosphere without question. No where else do you have so much access to pilots and planes.

Pete

[lmritger]

Got a question or two.

Which B-17's are being restored to airworthy condition. I know picadilly lilly in chino, and champagne lady in urbana oh. Is miss angela being made airworthy? I'd love to see her.

When I was at the Palm Springs Air Museum back in April, I took a tour of Miss Angela... she's complete, but she'd take quite a bit of work to get up to snuff as a touring bomber again. In talking with some of the folks at the Museum, the Fort is still involved in the back-and-forth litigation between Bob Pond's survivors (don't remember who the players were, just that the aircraft and museum have wound up in limbo while the lawyers pick over the estate).

It was nice to see a 34th BG Fortress though.

Lynn

[Mike]

Did 'Miss Angela' ever have the spar AD carried out?

[Chuck Giese]

Can't believe she's gone. Heck, I photographed Rush Limbaugh in her.

Rich

Yeah, I heard our crew was visibly excited after his visit.


What???? WhatdidIsaythistime?????

Last edited by Chuck Giese on Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Warbirdnerd]

Did 'Miss Angela' ever have the spar AD carried out?

Yes. She was at Packard's place in Mesa when I was there in Feb 2000. She used to be kept airworthy and attended the show in Chino until Mr Pond passed away...

[Steve Nelson]

What (if any) are the plans for Paul Allen's B-17E? Scott's link lists her in storage..but she is airworthy, isn't she?

SN

[airnutz]

What (if any) are the plans for Paul Allen's B-17E? Scott's link lists her in storage..but she is airworthy, isn't she?

SN

Isn't that the one the owner bequeathed to the museum with the proviso that it never be flown again, or am I misremembering??

[tulsaboy]

Airnutz-

You are confusing the "Boeing Bee" at the MOF in Seattle with Paul Allen's B-17E. Paul Allen's is under slow, slow restoration to (presumably) flight. Various pieces (like the tail) have been completed and displayed at various points. Photos have been here on WIX at some point.

To an earlier poster... the best I know is that the following B-17s are under restoration to flight:

Don Brooks' B-17G (the Dykes Lake one)
POF's "Picadilly Lilly" B-17G
"Desert Rat" B-17E
"Champaign Lady" B-17G
Supposedly a "mystery" B-17E (again, photos have appeared on the net and here on WIX at one point or another)

Kermit's B-17 is a candidate for restoration to flight, though with his B-24J being much closer and in much better shape, but not receiving much attention lately, I can't see that happening any time soon.

There has been discussion on this board in the past about the Pond estate litigation/arrangements and the B-17 "Miss Angela". I would suspect that we will see that one fly again, though it may be a while.

I will also go out on another limb... I think that we will reach a point, in the not-so-distant future, where a major reassessment of the NMUSAF's loan program, specifically as it relates to WWII vintage aircraft, will need to take place. Much in the same way that years ago the British Spitfires on gate-guard duty were exchanged for fiberglass replicas where desired and the originals were sold/auctioned to private entities, I think that we will reach a point where something similar will need to take place with the WWII aircraft that are still stored outdoors that are surplus to the NMUSAF's needs. I agree whole-heartedly with the need for our national air force collection to have combat examples of the major types of WWII bombers and fighters on static display. I can even see the rationalization for the museum wanting to have a B-17D,E,F and G on display (and once Swoose and the Memphis Belle are done they'll be pretty darn close!) But there are only so many B-17Gs that the museum needs to hang onto. I for one think that a trade of a B-17G that is on outdoor display for the Swamp Ghost, a combat-veteran B-17E, would be fantastic. Give Swamp Ghost the royal treatment, preserve/restore it for static display, and reward the salvors with a B-17G that could be restored to flight. Seems like a win-win to me.

But I digress. I think once the 4 current restoration to flight projects are completed, it will require a release of some of the NMUSAF inventory for us to see another restoration to flight of a B-17 any time soon. With the active restorations of 6 B-17s taking place right now (7 if you include Mary Alice!) we are at a unique point in post-WWII warbird restoration history. I feel it is highly unlikely that there will again be so many simultaneous active restorations of B-17s again in our lifetimes. Enjoy it while it lasts, and make sure to go support those engaged in the restorations -both active and static!

kevin

[Mike]

On the other side of the coin, it does seem to be a case of one step forward and several back with airworthy B-17s, with 4 airworthy examples ('Pink Lady', the ex-Richardson B-17F, 'Miss Angela' and the Evergreen example) becoming grounded museum exhibits (at least for the time being) in recent years. I also wonder what the future holds for the Lyon example ('Fuddy Duddy') too, as it is rarely flown and does seem another possible candidate to be retired to static display at some point.

[airnutz]

Thanks Tulsa, I hadda a feelin'....

[marine air]

This may be covered already. Am I correct in noticing that while there are several G's and a handful of F's and E's, nothing except G's have ever been restored and flown on the airshow circuit. Also noted, there are over a dozen Douglas B-18's Bolos and almost all had civilian registrations and now none are in civil ownership to ever fly again? Even Kermit doesnt have one!

[Jerry O'Neill]

Bob Richardson's B-17F was on the circuit for a short time back in the late 80's-early 90's, before his death saw the aircraft given to the Museum of Flight.
Jerry

[tulsaboy]

Marine Air-

Not that it is going to fly, but don't forget that the oldest surviving B-17, the "Swoose," is a D model. There are remnants of a C model in a California forest as well.

kevin

[Steve Nelson]

Supposedly a "mystery" B-17E (again, photos have appeared on the net and here on WIX at one point or another)

Ah..I think I was confusing that one with Paul Allen's. I remember seeing pics of a restored E (ex-Bolivian meat-hauler I think) in bare metal with basic star-and-meatball insignia..but it seems to have dropped off the radar.

SN