Collings Foundation B-17G 909 Has Crashed :-( 10/2/2019

[pjpahs]

Granddaughters off from school today, took them to South Bend, Indiana for a visit to a restored fountain from the Studebaker Motor Company. Then went to a “Mall” and entered thru the Barnes and Noble book store and found the October issue of Flypast magazine with a Bonus book of the B17G. Lots of specs and a cutaway of said aircraft. There is a photo heavy article of 909 , it brought back memories of my flight in it and conversations with Mac Macauley. I still am in disbelief that what happened, did happen. Rest In Peace.

[Xray]

NTSB update on B-17 plane crash

No revelations, seem to be close to be ruling out improper fuel though - Or at least, from what they have found out so far, improper fuel was not a factor in this crash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19vJ27Q5WSg&t=909s

[airnutz]

The date on the video says October 3.
EDIT
Xray, I believe your link is from a different camera than the one we saw on the first report. It is also missing the onsite walkaround.

[GarryW]

Some of the hosts of the Airplane Geeks podcasts met up with the Wings of Freedom tour just a week before the crash. They recount the story of their visit with them, share their chat with pilot Mac McCauley and talk about regulations for warbird flights. One of the other hosts is on the CAF B-29 crew.
There is no speculation around the cause of the crash.

http://www.airplanegeeks.com/2019/10/09 ... tion-b-17/
Segment starts at 26:50, talk with Mac (which starts with questions about the turbosuperchargers) is at 44:30

Thanks so much for posting this. I never had the pleasure of meeting Mac, but this interview definitely struck a chord. His recounting of listening into conversations of WWII vets hits close to home. While volunteering at Yankee, this was one of my favorite memories...listening to the inter-service banter between volunteers who are vets and the stories told by visitors who were WWII vets. The fact that it made such an impact on him makes him that much more relate-able to me personally having never met him. He truly "got" the importance of what he was doing and from the interview, you could tell how much he enjoyed being a part of it. His closing remarks were a bit of a gut punch knowing his fate a week or so later. Loss of life is always a sombering event, even moreso when you put a personality to that life.

[ChrisK48]

The NTSB preliminary report is out. This link is the PDF version. The HTML link doesn't seem to be working.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... m&IType=MA

Edit: This link has stopped working. Will update later.

[ChrisK48]

Link to NTSB October accident list. Check here for working links when available.

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.avia ... &year=2019

[RyanShort1]

The NTSB preliminary report is out. This link is the PDF version. The HTML link doesn't seem to be working.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/Repor ... m&IType=MA

Edit: This link has stopped working. Will update later.

It worked a few minutes ago just fine.

[RandolphB]

I'm speaking beyond my knowledge here, but are not the turbos on aircraft used to maintain power at high altitude (where warbirds no longer fly)?
Unlike a turbo'd automobile where the boost is for a burst of acceleration on demand.
Still a terrible tragedy- I'm sure that the pilots did their best.

While I'm not an aerospace engineer or A&P mechanic, that's only partially correct. I worked with stationary turbo d.......vs. drag and gravity (weight)...more to the point, there are more variables than just "if 'x', then 'y'".

In simple English, turbos are used to "Turbo-normailze" the power output of an engine. They are set up to provide boost in a certain way that the engine provides sea-level power up to a "Critical Altitude" , or an attitude chosen where performance may be allowed to drop off. After critical altitude is reached, power output begins to reduce.

In A & P school it was one of the worst concepts for most younger folks to understand, as their only experience was slapping a turbo on a Honda and turning it up until it blew the engine up.....

[phil65]

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... ash-emerge

Phil

[JFS61]

So Number 3 was in the process of being feathered at the time of the crash.

The jackscrew setting for the flaps is troubling as well.

[RyanShort1]

So Number 3 was in the process of being feathered at the time of the crash.

That's NOT a given, props can break, things can happen during an accident sequence.

The jackscrew setting for the flaps is troubling as well.

Why? Keeping them up would give a longer glide, right? If they never got above 500' they needed every inch they could glide.

[exhaustgases]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YN4QAdji7Y

Not sure if this was already posted, the latest update.


-------------------------
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... ash-emerge

How can there be zero time engines? Impossible, they are test run after the overhaul, and then tested on the aircraft.
Any info on who did the overhauls?

[bipe215]

So Number 3 was in the process of being feathered at the time of the crash.

The jackscrew setting for the flaps is troubling as well.

Checking my Dad's old B-17 pilot's manual, it states clearly that on one or two engines to minimize drag. You wouldn't lower them until you had the runway made.

[JFS61]

So Number 3 was in the process of being feathered at the time of the crash.

The jackscrew setting for the flaps is troubling as well.

Checking my Dad's old B-17 pilot's manual, it states clearly that on one or two engines to minimize drag. You wouldn't lower them until you had the runway made.

I realize now that my post was badly worded, and everyone is right, with little to no airspeed and altitude, extra drag was indeed the last thing one needed (especially with the gear down).

What I guess I was thinking was that at some point they might have tried to "pop" the flaps just prior to landing, especially when they found they were coming in short. Not that it would have made much of a difference at that point, but that was what I was thinking in regards to lack of movement in the jackscrew.

My apologies.

[sandiego89]

How can there be zero time engines? Impossible, they are test run after the overhaul, and then tested on the aircraft....

The article stated "At the time of the aircraft's most recent annual inspection on January 16, three of the four engines had zero hours since major overhaul; the No. 4 engine had 838.2 hours since its last major overhaul...."

I believe you are taking it a bit too literally- it is saying that at the time of the inspection the 3 engines had just been overhauled. The inspection could be done during winter maintenance, before test flights. Could they have been fired up? Sure