Question to Warbird owners..........

[EDowning]

Paul

Quick question...Can a T Bird really be operated safely on 4000ft? I always thought that the first generation jets took really long runways. I have never even considered one because of the runway length at my field (1H0 4300ft.)

Thanks

[T33driver]

Paul

Quick question...Can a T Bird really be operated safely on 4000ft? I always thought that the first generation jets took really long runways. I have never even considered one because of the runway length at my field (1H0 4300ft.)

Thanks

Eric,

It can be done safely (esp w/ the more powerful Rolls-powered Canadair & it's better brakes) but I wouldn't advocate doing it on a regular basis. 5000' is a comfortable runway length for basing a T-33--mine's 5849'. On landing, you have to nail your short-field approach and touchdown speeds (not even two or three kts fast), get the mains touched down on the first few hundred feet of runway, track the flaps up, open the canopy on-speed and pull the stick towards your lap to get more weight on the mains, and brake as much as you dare. It's amazing how this airplane floats and how much excess energy it has if you're a little fast on approach--validates the velocity being "squared" in the kinetic energy equation. Another consideration when the T-33's loaded up with heavy fuel load is not just having enough runway for takeoff, but getting it stopped in the event you abort the takeoff near rotation/refusal speed (no anti-skid). The Lockheed brakes are weak and fade real quick, the Canadair brakes are much better, but juuuust adequate. A 4000' foot strip makes you look at this heavier takeoff scenario real close. I've been into Flying Cloud MN (3909') and Watertown WI (KRYV--4400') for airshows and they went fine (didn't frag any tires), but it confirmed 4000' is a good bare-bones minimum. What runway length is comfortable for bare bones minimum and regular Skyraider ops?

[EDowning]

Paul Wrote:

What runway length is comfortable for bare bones minimum and regular Skyraider ops?

The Skyraider is a very docile, very well behaved beast. Landing it at an airfield with 4000' allows one to use a very comfortable 98kts on approach at the very light weights that I generally operate at @ 16,500lbs., max gross is a little over 25,000lbs. Brakes are very good and don't really fade, but I make every effort not to use them at all if possible, just a light touch after touch down, to make sure they are there and then a very slight amount at the end of the roll to turn off. The pucks that the system uses are in very short supply, and therefore expensive. Tires are a whole different issue, the Skyraider is very tough on tires. 50 landings on a set is about all you get. They are readily available at $1600 a set plus $600 for a set of tubes, new, but I have them retreaded much cheaper, and the retreads seem to hold up a little better. On 4000ft I hold 20'" and a stabilized approach and put it on the #s and pull off all power at full touch down and let the aircraft coast to almost a full stop.

The Skyraider will teach you alot about three things, Torque, P Factor and Inertia.

The Skyraider doesn't fly like it looks. It has boosted controls, so it is very light on the controls. Rolls as well as anything I have flown and does nice loops. Trim however is crucial.

For take off I hold the brakes and run it up to 30" before I release and the prop air flow gives you full rudder authority as you begin the roll, especially in the AD5, which has 40% more rudder than the "little" Skyraider. I use 48"/2800 for take off, 36"/2600 (2000-3000 fpm and 330GPH) for climb and 28"/1900 for cruise (@180kts and 100GPH) At 16,500lbs you get some very impressive climb rates.

Probably more than you asked for, but, 3000ft is safe if conditions are optimal and you use excellent technique. Anything less than that is emergency use only. The 3000' approach is more like a shortfield/carrier approach, with 91kts, very little flair and complete power reduction just as the mains touch. The Skyraider is rugged. Very firm, and the slight "vertical" drop in, kills a lot of the rolling inertia, brakes as a last resort.

[T33driver]

Paul Wrote:

What runway length is comfortable for bare bones minimum and regular Skyraider ops?

The Skyraider is a very docile, very well behaved beast. Landing it at an airfield with 4000' allows one to use a very comfortable 98kts on approach at the very light weights that I generally operate at @ 16,500lbs., max gross is a little over 25,000lbs. Brakes are very good and don't really fade, but I make every effort not to use them at all if possible, just a light touch after touch down, to make sure they are there and then a very slight amount at the end of the roll to turn off. The pucks that the system uses are in very short supply, and therefore expensive. Tires are a whole different issue, the Skyraider is very tough on tires. 50 landings on a set is about all you get. They are readily available at $1600 a set plus $600 for a set of tubes, new, but I have them retreaded much cheaper, and the retreads seem to hold up a little better. On 4000ft I hold 20'" and a stabilized approach and put it on the #s and pull off all power at full touch down and let the aircraft coast to almost a full stop.

The Skyraider will teach you alot about three things, Torque, P Factor and Inertia.

The Skyraider doesn't fly like it looks. It has boosted controls, so it is very light on the controls. Rolls as well as anything I have flown and does nice loops. Trim however is crucial.

For take off I hold the brakes and run it up to 30" before I release and the prop air flow gives you full rudder authority as you begin the roll, especially in the AD5, which has 40% more rudder than the "little" Skyraider. I use 48"/2800 for take off, 36"/2600 (2000-3000 fpm and 330GPH) for climb and 28"/1900 for cruise (@180kts and 100GPH) At 16,500lbs you get some very impressive climb rates.

Probably more than you asked for, but, 3000ft is safe if conditions are optimal and you use excellent technique. Anything less than that is emergency use only. The 3000' approach is more like a shortfield/carrier approach, with 91kts, very little flair and complete power reduction just as the mains touch. The Skyraider is rugged. Very firm, and the slight "vertical" drop in, kills a lot of the rolling inertia, brakes as a last resort.

Eric,

Great stuff! The T-33 feels like a cement truck when you taxi it, but it flies like a sports car! Ailerons are the only hyd boosted control surface and consequently very responsive. Great aerobatic airplane! Center to aft CG makes spin recovery it a little tricky and the airplane prone to tumbling if you break the stall too aggressively with excessive forward stick--more like back pressure release, then immediately neutralize controls when stall breaks to prevent tumble. Tumbling's no big deal at slow speeds and it'll fly out of it with neutralized controls and at least 15,000' of altitude. No, I don't spin it. I get 65-80 cycles out of a set of new Goodyears ($920/set). For takeoff, rotate at 110-115 KIAS, retract flaps passing 140 KIAS (600 gph fuel flow) and accelerate to 240-250 KIAS and figure on burning average of 300 gph like clockwork for a low altitude sortie. Climb at .50/.55/.60 mach as you climb up to 18,000/28,000/above 28,000 respectively to cruise at .70 mach or 430 kts True), 35,000'. Idle power descent at 2:1 altitude/distance (i.e. if you're at 35,000', start descent 70 miles out--no wind), at .65 mach. No wind range if no ATC delays climbing, no early descent, of 1000 nm with good IFR reserve. With less than 1577 lbs fuel (approx 235 gal and 11,300 lb GW), appch at 125 KIAS, threshold 110-115 KIAS to touchdown no less than 105 KIAS. One thing an old centrifugal turbojet teaches is don't get slow!! It spools up agonizingly slow below 60% rpm, so I come down final with speedbrakes extended which requires more power, therefore engine is more spooled up and will accelerate much faster in the event I need more power, especially for a go-around. Of course it spools down slow too so you have to chop power well prior to the overrun so you don't come over the numbers fast. Gotta hold power a little longer for gusty winds and/or landing w/ excess fuel (approaching 2000 lbs or 300 gal). Crosswind component limit is 20 kts and sideslip limited to < 130 KIAS (so you don't tumble) and less than 20 degrees so the tip tanks don't block airflow to the ailerons and cause you lose control effectiveness and crash. Anyway, enough trivia from me...great, honest airplane.