Glacier Girl

[Jack Cook]

How do you think the Bearcat with TFC, the P-51 now with OFMC at Duxford, the various B-25s, A-26s and PBYs in Europe, or the B-17s for 'Memphis Belle' got there? And when John Paul's P-40E was operated by OFMC at Duxford

Are you saying all of those flew across? Nothing was crated and shipped?
Never-Ever. How's P-51B Princess Elizabeth getting here?

How do you think the ex-Doug Arnold P-38 got to the UK? And back again?

I read the account of that trip. Quite harrowing and touch & go at some points.

Is the airplane worth the risk?? It sure didn't have much luck the first try!

[Mike]

So how do you propose getting twin-engined aircraft between continents? The free trade of these aircraft means that they are constantly changing ownership, and moving around. The example I quoted (the TFC Tigercat at Duxford) has recently been sold to a new owner in Seattle, and is waiting for the longer spring days and better weather before being ferried across the North Atlantic. I agree that the ferrying of singles is too risky, and the days of such flights seem to have ended since the sad loss of John Crocker (who ferried the P-51, Bearcat and P-40E which I mentioned above)

However, I really don't see an end to ferring multi-engined aircraft. It is the only practical way of moving them between continents. Such ferry flights have happened many, many times during the modern warbird era, and will no doubt continue.

For example, recently an A-26 was ferried to Australia. A friend of mine is due to ferry a PBY from South Africa to California, another is due to go the other way, from the US to South Africa.

Personally, I hope the planned trip for Glacier Girl does take place. If it happens as I've been told, it will be quite an event!

[Robbie Stuart]

From The Liberty Foundation;


The Liberty Foundation is currently raising funds/Sponsorship for the additional $275,000.00 needed to realize a very historic trip to fly the Liberty Belle overseas. The Liberty Belle will fly the exact route that our veterans flew over 60 years ago, Tour historic station 153, the home base of the 390th BG and once home to the original ”Liberty Belle”. For more information and some unique opportunities please call 918-340-0243.

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Wonder if the B-17's gonna have a P-38 escort?
Robbie

[Mike]

How do you think the Bearcat with TFC, the P-51 now with OFMC at Duxford, the various B-25s, A-26s and PBYs in Europe, or the B-17s for 'Memphis Belle' got there? And when John Paul's P-40E was operated by OFMC at Duxford

Are you saying all of those flew across?

Yep. Along with Lindsay Walton's F4U-7, which I forgot when compiling the above list.

Nowadays, more aircraft are crated and shipped, but mainly single-engined ones. Try doing that with a PBY or a B-25. Or even a P-38 or Tigercat.

Anyway, as I understand the rationale behind the P-38 trip, the whole point is to make a film on the theme of the original journey being completed, 60-odd years later.

[k5083]

So how do you propose getting twin-engined aircraft between continents?

To be reasonable about it, I think one needs to balance the number of engines, the reliability of those engines, the rarity and value of the aircraft, and the size of the aircraft (i.e. whether it can be shipped feasibly) when making the decision whether to ferry or ship. The analysis might go like this:

Those factors probably come out in favor of ferrying B-17s. Hard to ship, four nice reliable round engines, not so rare that it would be crushing to lose one.

B-25s and A-26s, only two engines but otherwise as above, so maybe okay also.

P-38 or Mosquito, no. Engines insufficiently reliable; too rare; small enough to pack and ship. I hope that the days of ferrying those over the pond are over.

F7F, close call. I would favor shipping but the engines are reliable and I wouldn't be overly upset if one were lost.

August

[Mudge]

WOW...August...Aren't you being a bit cavalier with the "losses" there. Seems to me there'd probably be some loss of life.

A film of the P-38 flight would be fandamtabulous. Can you imagine what
History/Discovery/Learning channel(s) would pay for that?
If they'll pay millions for that lame "Dog, The Bounty Hunter", I'd say "GO FOR IT".

Mudge the fearless

[Trey Carroll]

Why not just put her in a container and ship it to England. Flying all that way would be very neat but does anyone know the cost comparisons for shipping v. flying??? My vote is put it on a boat, but we need to remember this has neither been confirmed nor denied that it's gonna even leave.

[Trey Carroll]

Why not just put her in a container and ship it to England. Flying all that way would be very neat but does anyone know the cost comparisons for shipping v. flying??? My vote is put it on a boat, but we need to remember this has neither been confirmed nor denied that it's gonna even leave.

tc

[AirJimL2]

So what was the last single engined fighter that flew across the pond? N232J going to England?

Oh and I vote shipping, btw.

Jim

[Mike]

A film of the P-38 flight would be fandamtabulous. Can you imagine what History/Discovery/Learning channel(s) would pay for that?

What have you got against National Geographic? After all, they did cover the initial search and recovery operations in Greenland!

[planeoldsteve]

Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble."Over"? Did you say "Over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? He** no!

It's a Twin, No one got hurt last time, so they ran out of gas-big deal, it was from bad weather-weather forecasting is allot better now, They have GPS and you know they will have a chase plane if not helicopter to film it.

Steve

Last edited by planeoldsteve on Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Mike]

F7F, close call. I would favor shipping but the engines are reliable and I wouldn't be overly upset if one were lost.

Yes, common as dirt. There must be, what, a whole three or four of them that still fly!

[Bradburger]

I think people are forgetting that freight ships can be at risk too!

You only have to look at the one that capsized off the Devon coast the other week. Bikes, cars and other 'big' stuff were washed up on the beach.

And sending aircraft by container doesn't make them immune from damage (sometimes serious) during transit, packing & unpacking.

Cheers

Paul

[mustangdriver]

I just don't understand what the big deal is about going on the trip. I don't get it. Every airplane produced for the war effort was going to go overseas. Some did not make due to the war's end. Should we fly all of those over there as well? I don't see where the pay off is worth the risk in this case. I just don't want to see another foolish warbird accident like Kee Bird.

[Bradburger]

Regards the supposed 'risks' of a Transatlantic flight, the thing I find puzzling is how come no one has bought up the provenance/originality issue?

After all, most people seem to class current day restorations as data plate jobs and that they are really just replicas (even if they have a fair amount of their original structrure and components!), so should we really be worrying if it is 'too risky' and if, God forbid, the aircraft was damaged or destroyed?

Cheers

Paul