Good stuff Fleet16! If I may:
fleet16b wrote:
...Brown did file a report that he fired on and brought down a red Triplane that was chasing May's Camel. This was witnessed by another pilot who also filed a combat report. Therefore he is officially recognized as the victor.
Roy Brown has never to my knowledge had a reputaion of be being a liar or embelisher. He was an experienced Flight leader with kills to his credit.
If he felt that his actions resulted in MvR's death , then I think his opinion should be fairley accurate.
No argument with that, mostly correct, I believe, and important points to make. No-one should, or (I hope) would, doubt Brown's capability (he was generally recognised as a good, conscientious, albeit war-weary - as they all were- flight commander.) There's a big difference between 'fired upon' and downing - IIRC, Brown had left the scene by the time the Triplane came down, and I think (again, subject to original data) Brown didn't claim the victory initially - and there is a theory (probably unsubstantiated) that he was told to - as I said before the RAF needed to be seen to be the victor over MvR in the eyes of some RAF brass. That's just a theory, but no less credible than deciding it's a legitimate all-clear RAF claim by an honest chap. At the
least the war, timing and situation were not clear and simple, otherwise there'd have been no argument.
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There have been many watered down and altered versions of the event online and at this point which of them are accuaret who knows.
Some are, some aren't, and it's not too hard to differentiate, using basic research or academic criteria - source data shown, deduction based on fact, unknowns discussed rather than skated over, etc... The main story isn't disputed, and as shown on the PT forum (earlier link) my friend and colleague Melvyn Hiscock has researched the matter, flown the course and drawn some conclusions.
Anyone can do this, rather than needing a computer, a reconstruction of the aircraft or giving up on the difficulty of some standard but proper research.
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People always want to find fault with something and in this day and age there seems to be much hero bashing. Not to say Brown was a hereo for the act . In fact even he would comment little on the event. After all he killed someone, not something to brag about .
Again, no one's 'bashing' any of the participants. The guys on the ground were no-less or more 'heroes' - but if credit can be placed correctly it should. Brown was (probably certainly) sick of the saga. But he may also well have not wanted to discuss it because he didn't want to share any doubts or point the finger at any RAF brass. It's a theory, may well be wrong, but 'facts' do bear alternative explanations. That's why these forum discussions can be good!
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Overall, it's too bad MVR died it would have interestimhg if he had survived the war.
An interesting point! At the time, 'we' wanted him dead - he was an enemy hero, and was too good at killing our men. After he died, 3 Sqn Australian Flying Corps were honoured (and pleased) to give him a burial with full military honours.
As to him having an involvement in the Nazi Luftwaffe? Interesting - who knows. Goering shows how some could follow the Nazi creed all the way, while Udet also shows how a great airman could be ruined and forced to suicide by the regime. As an aristocrat and certainly a 'hard' if perhaps 'brutal' Junker, I don't think he'd have much truck with Hitler, but wouldn't have been able to limit the astute politician Goering was. All up for debate, but I believe civilisation is better off with him removed.
"But that was in another country and besides, the wench is dead."
Cheers!
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