Warbird Information Exchange

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Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 5:45 pm 
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I think its a pretty simple answer why some people come up and ask such questions...because they are model builders and want all the detail they can get to build therer model.

At one airshow a modeler walked up to a pilot of a Stearman. One of the national insignia's on the Stearman was upside down. So the man asked the pilot if he knew it was like that. The pilot said, "you must be a modeler becasue they ask me that question all the time". :lol:

C'mon guys be civil. IMHO, the owner of a warbird should know some general information about his plane. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:00 pm 
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Nathan wrote:

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I think its a pretty simple answer why some people come up and ask such questions...because they are model builders and want all the detail they can get to build therer model.


Why would a modeler want to know the serial # (I gave them the type and model #) of my carb or emergency hydraulic pump? I guess that's possible, but I would really like to see that model. One of the coolest things I have seen on this site is the pictures of the metal spitfire model. I am not much of a modeler, but that is just a work of art. I do, however, doubt if it has serial #s on the individual components like a carb or pump.

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the owner of a warbird should know some general information about his plane.


I couldn't agree more, and as a side note I have learned a lot about detailed history of various Skyraider units and specific airframes, from people at some of the airshows.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:05 pm 
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EDowning wrote:
Thanks to JDK, ASTIXJR and DAN JOHNSON II,

The information and comments you provided are very helpful. To be sure, the couple of times this has happened in the last 3 years is the exception to rule. I have met many of the people on this site at various airshows and have spent hours involved in some very detailed conversation/question interactions. However, the times when this whole, component and serial number request came up it became quite contensious when I declined to provide the info.

Background is as follows. When I first got the Skyraider it had been sitting, flown very little in the couple of years prior to my purchase. When I went to the Red Wing MN airshow, the carb failed and it had to be overhauled. The aircraft ended up sitting in a hangar at Red Wing for a few weeks, while I had the carb overhauled. I also decided to overhaul every accessory on the aircraft shortly after that, rather than wait for one at a time failures or leaks, seeps, etc. The process that I decided to use to do this was to find a serviceable core or yellow tagged accessory item and then have it gone through or yellow tagged as necessary, and then put it on the aircraft and have the item from the aircraft overhauled and put "on the shelf" as a spare. When I say all accessory items, I mean all, it hasn't been cheap, but we haven't missed a show for mait in 2 years.

Anyway, this lead to the following. Guy comes up and asks me what failed when I was at Red Wing (2 years ago) and I told him. He asked what we did to fix the problem, I told him and he asked if the carb was removed and overhauled and the same one was replaced. I said yes on the carb, but explained the process detailed above about the rest of the accessory items (big mistake in this conversation). He then asked me the carb type and model #, which I provided. He then asked for the CARB SERIAL # and asked in a very condesending manner, if I "planned to put the real accessories" back on the aircraft in the future, and did I have the Serial # info for the items I had on the aircraft and the "correct" items I had on the shelf. As this point I aked him why he wanted this info and he told me he uses this info "to track the authenticity" of various aircraft. At this time I politely attempted to chew my arm off and get away from this idiot. (If it was you ,Mike, sorry for the idiot comment, but I didn't catch the guys name).

I won't bore you with the details of the second encounter, but a guy called the airport and left me several messages about coming by to get info about the airplanes. I called him back and he told me he wanted to come by and look the airplanes at the hangar. I said fine, he then asked if there was a time that would be convienient, that they would all be uncowled, I let him know that that almost never happens at the same time. He seemed annoyed but said he would come by "anyway". I travel for work, 4 days a week, but have a full time mechanic, so I set up a time that he could come to the hangar while I was gone. Guy shows up, tells Dave (my mechanic) that the airplanes are all susposed to be un cowled and that he will just look through the items in our parts room, while Dave uncowls the airplanes. Dave calls me, I talk to the guy, who says he wants to write down the "detailed info" about the components on the airplanes and there is no way to get to it with the airplanes cowled up. I decline, and he tells me that " the least I can do is let him write down the info from all of the yellow tag shelf stuff". I tell him this isn't going to work out and have Dave show him out. (Sorry if that was you, Mike, but I wasn't properly introduced to this guy either).

So, as you can see, this isn't about stupid questions at airshows. 99% of the people and their questions (good or bad) are fine. It's just the idiots who want info they have no business asking for or want to ramble on about making lists of questions that should be allowed that I have no use for.


No offense taken. I've met some idiot Warbird pilots before, it just hasn't been you yet. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:09 pm 
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Mike Furline wrote:

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No offense taken. I've met some idiot Warbird pilots before, it just hasn't been you yet.


See...something to look foward to. No shortage on either side.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:17 pm 
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What's the serial number on your tail wheel? I'm making a 1/144 scale model and want it to be accurate.

Truce? :)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:23 pm 
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Mike Furline wrote:

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Truce?


Of Course. I would give you the tailwheel serial #, but I don't have a 1/144 font. :P

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:11 pm 
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Eric, James et al (and Scott, especially)--

Got to say I'm impressed with how this thread has resolved and, with some moderatorial (is that a word?) urging, remained civil. On some other fora the discussion would long since have grenaded itself; I've taken a break from another forum for a while for that sort of reason.

And I, too, would love to see a Skyraider model so detailed it had part numbers applied... :roll:

Viva WIX!

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:16 pm 
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A couple of Oshkosh "owner " stories;
1) A P-40 had just arrived and it was a real beauty. Looked factory new and 3 or 4 guys were scurrying over it cleaning it up and getting it cleaned and ready to be judged. I asked the guy on the wing, in a flight suit, who happened to be the owner, "What model is this P-40?" He asked me to repeat it in my southern drawl 3 times. Finally he asked the guy on the wing in front of him on the wing walk "What model is this P-40?" The mechanic whispered over his left shoulder to his boss; E model."
2) anopther from the early 1990's; A fellow crew chief and friend of mine from my Air Guard C-130 unit were at Oshkosh and he couldn't believe the F4U-5 had fabric covered wings and tail surfaces. We were looking at the left horizontal stabilizer fabric and without even realizing it, while talking one of my fingers had touched one of the fabric seams so lightly I didn't even realize it. The owner had positioned himself anbout 40 feet away and came swooping down on us like a hawk. He started screaming "
"Hands off my airplane! I spent 850,000 dollars having every nut and bolt and piece on this airplane restored to new condition!
I looked up at the tail and it had the initials R.F. in huge white lettering. In my biggest smartass tone of voice I could muster I said "No you didn't! Bob Ferguson did, you just bought this from Courtesy Aircraft 2 months ago!" I did an about face and walked off leaving him really hot beneath the collar. :D


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:40 pm 
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This one will top you Eric.
At one show a fellow asked me get the registration, airworthiness
certificate and any other paperwork out so he could photograph them with his digital camera.
When I asked to see his credentials he pulled out his drivers license :shock:
I'm usually pretty good at whitty comebacks but this time words failed me. :roll: :shock: :idea: :?:
If I ever see you at a show I'll be sure to ask you the same question :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:05 pm 
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Eric,

You realize that you are going to get a serial number question from every WIX member who sees you at an airshow from this point forward. :twisted:

In the military vehicle hobby I have run into people who do a lot of research and look for similar information. They ask questions trying to determine what original equipment may have been installed on the vehicle. For instance, take a jeep. They will look at the body serial, the frame serial number, the engine serial number and see if they are original to the vehicle. They even collect info on carb models or serials etc. They collect all the information and compare it to determine things such as when during production they may have made certain modifications to the production line. It is very big in the antique automobile hobby and used as a means of judging at shows.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:14 pm 
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Quote:
2) anopther from the early 1990's; A fellow crew chief and friend of mine from my Air Guard C-130 unit were at Oshkosh and he couldn't believe the F4U-5 had fabric covered wings and tail surfaces. We were looking at the left horizontal stabilizer fabric and without even realizing it, while talking one of my fingers had touched one of the fabric seams so lightly I didn't even realize it. The owner had positioned himself anbout 40 feet away and came swooping down on us like a hawk. He started screaming "
"Hands off my airplane! I spent 850,000 dollars having every nut and bolt and piece on this airplane restored to new condition!


To be honest with you I can almost understand this guy. While you may have been around warbirds your whole life and know how to have a gentle hand with things there are too many people out there who don't and you can't tell the difference between a guy who is warbird mechanic and showing his buddy how the fabric is sewn and someone who is going to poke a whole in your fabric. He may have had to deal with this a hundred times before. That is why I stick to the rule, if it ain't yours, don't touch it, or look like you are.

The general public can be brutal and when our M5 Stuart tank is on display people will jump and craw all over it if you give them half a chance. If you have an antique car or jeep on display people will let their kids sit in the seat and pretend they are driving, people will open up your 1955 Chevy door and look or sit inside. They just don;t care. I have seriously thought previously about figuring out where one of these peoples Camry is parked and then inviting my kids to climb all over it.

Ryan


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:29 pm 
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While working at Fighter Rebuilders there was a time when the museums Mustang "Spam Can" was disassembled during it's long term restoration. The entire wing was on it's gear with a support attached with a castor at the bottom to allow it to be towed around. It was basically in a level attitude and along the fence outdoors. During the same time POF was restoring the N9M Flying Wing at a site away from Chino Airport.
It was incredible how many times someone would come up to me to congratulate us on the progress on the Flying Wing or the conversation you would overhear about the same thing. They were looking at a wing from a P-51 but assumed it was another wing.
Rich


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:33 pm 
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Group,
I've been lurking here just reading it all to see how it all settled out.

Techno nit pickers should tell you why they want to know what they're asking about, just out of common courtesy.

Eric, I'd have told the first guy it simply wasn't his business. The second one, I'd call security- quickly. He really better have a good reason.

I think both of these characters started off with a serious lapse of respect.

Doug Ratchford 'Canso42'


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:43 pm 
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Yes i agree, I was even wrong to touch his F4U with even one finger. I think he was looking for an opportunity to "go off" on the next guy that touched his airplane. I think he overreacted. When I take a show airplane to an event, inevitably people are going to look at and get close. I have learned that if they are respectful and cautious, it's no big deal. The airplane is going to get fingerprints on it being pushed out of the hangar, or closing the canopy, what's a few more? A lot of times a parent will have a child too close and the kid will touch the wing or landing gear. If it's not polished metal, I let it slide. If they get up on the wing, step on a wheel pant, touch polished metal, or do anything that seems rude, then I say something.
If it's a single mom that has brought her kid to see airplanes, and the kid is putting his gum on the pitot tube, and trying to walk out on the wing, then that's a big NO-NO, unless she's smoking hot and wearing shorts, then that's okay too! :wink:


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 Post subject: Airplane Love
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Can't we all just get along?

Actually, I think we should have a lottery and pick a WIX member designated target of the week. Officially sanctioned, with proper Critical Incident Stress Debriefing, we all could unload on someone for a whole week. We'd just have to sign a waiver to hold harmless for emotional damage. The new target would get a box of kleenex, stuffed animal of their choice, a bag of cookies and some Enya and Regina Spektor CD's to help them through the week.

I don't know, though. Cookies might run out and the stuffed animal might start talking to you during your time as WIX B**ch... If he did talk, he'd probably tell you to build an immersion chamber made of 55 gallon drums and old engine cowls, and that the Navy is after you.

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