Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:12 am
Hey Hellcat...if I read you correctly when you say that cowards go to war, do I take that as what you mean is that a coward uses their fists to settle an argument while an intelligent person uses their mind? The pen is mightier than the sword?
I can't figure out how the religious people in this country think that war is good or a Godly thing. After the beating that Jesus took from the Romans, as he was hanging on the cross dying, I believe his final words were "Forgive them father for they know not what they do". All throughout his life, Jesus taught his followers that living in peace with each other was what he wanted. Talk to each other and work it out. How did those teachings get perverted into todays "conservative" view of if you don't see things the way we do in America, we are gonna come over there and put a boot up your behind???
I do still love my country and know that there are a lot of very good people here with the best of intentions. Those in control of our government have become so bloated from their gluttonous gorging at the trough of greed that they have lost all sense of what it once meant to be a servant of the people. Please don't say God Bless America...he has blessed us greatly but we have turned our back on him. It is time for us to once again count our blessings for still living in the greatest country on the face of the Earth and to show this to the world through compassionate actions and not by an iron fist!
I can't figure out how the religious people in this country think that war is good or a Godly thing. After the beating that Jesus took from the Romans, as he was hanging on the cross dying, I believe his final words were "Forgive them father for they know not what they do". All throughout his life, Jesus taught his followers that living in peace with each other was what he wanted. Talk to each other and work it out. How did those teachings get perverted into todays "conservative" view of if you don't see things the way we do in America, we are gonna come over there and put a boot up your behind???
I do still love my country and know that there are a lot of very good people here with the best of intentions. Those in control of our government have become so bloated from their gluttonous gorging at the trough of greed that they have lost all sense of what it once meant to be a servant of the people. Please don't say God Bless America...he has blessed us greatly but we have turned our back on him. It is time for us to once again count our blessings for still living in the greatest country on the face of the Earth and to show this to the world through compassionate actions and not by an iron fist!
Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:17 am
I'm not quite sure where the idea came that many in the US likes going to war or that we have an attitude like you state. I think most want war as the last thing, but then again, our enemy uses violence as their first and almost only method of getting their ideas across. Why is it so hard for people to understand that concept? These people are *NOT* terrorists. They are classified as that, but the people we are fighting are by-and-large religious zealots, not people who use rational thought. These people blow themselves up in the belief that they will receive 72 virgins for their "deed." They believe that if you are not a Muslim then you must convert to one and if you don't, you die - at their hands. To these people there is nothing else. They are not all Muslims, but they are the most vocal of them, and they are the ones whom are killing thousands every month across the world because they don't believe as they do. In fact, they're killing more MUSLIMS than they are any other religion because those Muslims don't believe in the same radical form of Islam that they do.
Before you go off about how people in this country "loving" or even "liking" war, consider whom we're fighting. Diplomacy doesn't work on pure hatred. We tried and all we got to show was smoking holes in the ground where buildings and people used to be. These people have been out there for 40 years, we just haven't paid attention to them until now. Does everyone forget the first WTC attack? That was conducted by Muslim extremists. What about the USS Cole? What about the US Embassies in Africa and the Middle East? None of these attacks were carried out by armed militia. They were carried out by Muslim Extremists and we did nothing but talk, so they kept attacking. Finally, we have taken action and guess what - no US assets have been attacked outside the current areas of operation in the last 5 years.
You may be right that "cowards go to war" because it is cowards who started this war in believing that the proper action is to kill one's self to get their point across. However it takes someone of great strength to face and counter that aggression as the US has done in the past and continues to do today. It takes strength and resolve for one to not run away and pretend like it's not happening. Problem is- over 5000 US citizens are dead today because of the actions of Muslim Extremists. We've talked to them for 40 years and all that's changed is the number killed has continued to rise. The Bible does not teach blind pacifism. While Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek when shamed, he also taught that when one is wronged,, action must be taken to right that wrong, even if it does mean physical action, but that physical action should be the last resort. I think trying to talk for 20+ years has been enough to prove that our enemies don't care for words, only action.
Before you go off about how people in this country "loving" or even "liking" war, consider whom we're fighting. Diplomacy doesn't work on pure hatred. We tried and all we got to show was smoking holes in the ground where buildings and people used to be. These people have been out there for 40 years, we just haven't paid attention to them until now. Does everyone forget the first WTC attack? That was conducted by Muslim extremists. What about the USS Cole? What about the US Embassies in Africa and the Middle East? None of these attacks were carried out by armed militia. They were carried out by Muslim Extremists and we did nothing but talk, so they kept attacking. Finally, we have taken action and guess what - no US assets have been attacked outside the current areas of operation in the last 5 years.
You may be right that "cowards go to war" because it is cowards who started this war in believing that the proper action is to kill one's self to get their point across. However it takes someone of great strength to face and counter that aggression as the US has done in the past and continues to do today. It takes strength and resolve for one to not run away and pretend like it's not happening. Problem is- over 5000 US citizens are dead today because of the actions of Muslim Extremists. We've talked to them for 40 years and all that's changed is the number killed has continued to rise. The Bible does not teach blind pacifism. While Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek when shamed, he also taught that when one is wronged,, action must be taken to right that wrong, even if it does mean physical action, but that physical action should be the last resort. I think trying to talk for 20+ years has been enough to prove that our enemies don't care for words, only action.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:34 am
Well said, CAP Flyer.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:40 am
Hey, I was only making fun of Hellcat. This has become a debate of good vs. evil. Sorta like ... Good Boob jobs vs. breast reduction. 
Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:24 am
I could not agree with you more CAPFlyer. This is my first post and it is not even about warbirds. However, I thought that you said it so well that I had to comment.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:36 am
I would really, REALLY like to know when it was that war put an end to war.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:48 am
michaelharadon wrote:I would really, REALLY like to know when it was that war put an end to war.
The same as jail stops crime. You can never stop it, you just don't want it to be in your yard. We should open all the jails and borders and live in peace and love..... then after you convert, you can die for having a image of a living thing, like a photo of your loved ones, then get the 72 virgins.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:56 am
FG1D Pilot wrote:michaelharadon wrote:I would really, REALLY like to know when it was that war put an end to war.
The same as jail stops crime. You can never stop it, you just don't want it to be in your yard. We should open all the jails and borders and live in peace and love..... then after you convert, you can die for having a image of a living thing, like a photo of your loved ones, then get the 72 virgins.
WTF?
Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:04 am
michaelharadon wrote:I would really, REALLY like to know when it was that war put an end to war.
As far as "war" ending a "war" forever, it has been a long time. That's because no one in the last 300+ years is willing to conduct Total War - the extermination of every enemy, man, woman, & child. It happened in ancient times (the Romans wiped out several entire civilizations), and it happened during the Middle Ages (Mexican and South American civilizations during the Spanish Explorations), but since then, the common sense of morality has prevented Total War from being fully executed although during WWII the Germans had started it as things started going down hill for them, though thankfully they were interrupted by the Allies.
There are only two ways to truly end a war - either you agree to stop fighting or you kill all of your enemies. All of the modern wars have been the former.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:55 am
I think we got a pretty good country. I can sleep, eat, and do whatever peacefully and without fear(most of the time). Does our country need some work? Sure.
The French, We saved their a$$es in WWII. They can at lest be thankful.
Sorry, needed to vent. Maybe this thread should be pulled.
The French, We saved their a$$es in WWII. They can at lest be thankful.
Sorry, needed to vent. Maybe this thread should be pulled.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 11:39 am
Nathan wrote:
The French, We saved their a$$es in WWII. They can at lest be thankful.
Nathan, the French are thankful. I spent four years living in Alsace, in eastern France, and traveled a bit to several other places in the country. It's not exaggerating by much to say that a wine cellar's worth of the best white wines on the planet were opened and shared with me, in very, very large measure to honor, and out of respect for, the sacrifices made by our greatest generation. Those old enough to have stories about our military during the war tell them with a reverence and appreciation that define those two words. I didn't make up the Memorial Day B-24 story that I posted. I heard it out of Antoine's heartfelt desire that the sacrifice of the pilot not die with him.
It has also been my experience that younger generations also have been friendly to me because I am an American.
I was in Paris for a week in October, 2001. The genuine and sincere expressions of sympathy and grief for what had happened in September, given to me by total strangers in the street who found out I am an American, were, if I can use the expression, of world class comfort.
Now, does their government always speak and act in ways that warm me as much as those of their citizenry? No, of course not. But, unfortunately, theirs is only one of a number of governments that are motivated more by self serving interests of its elected officials more than, say, anything written on a piece of paper...
Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:20 pm
Aggression/Coward are to words that don't go together. Cowards who start wars is B.S. from a coward. A coward marchs to the gas chamber without a fight. A bully is the person that marchs them.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
cow·ard /ˈkaʊərd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kou-erd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
–adjective 2. lacking courage; very fearful or timid.
3. proceeding from or expressive of fear or timidity: a coward cry.
My 3 point method will help you get over your fear.
1. Go on a diet, Fat people lack cofidence
2. Slaughter chickens for dinner. Low fat
3.Join a fight club. It will help you get over your problem. It will make you a lean mean fighting machine
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
cow·ard /ˈkaʊərd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kou-erd] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
–adjective 2. lacking courage; very fearful or timid.
3. proceeding from or expressive of fear or timidity: a coward cry.
My 3 point method will help you get over your fear.
1. Go on a diet, Fat people lack cofidence
2. Slaughter chickens for dinner. Low fat
3.Join a fight club. It will help you get over your problem. It will make you a lean mean fighting machine
Re: Confusing day
Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:50 pm
T33driver wrote:Hellcat wrote:Someone cheer me up ...
The girl that cuts my hair just got a sensational boob-job.
That would make my weekend.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:55 pm
Know this.
1. There are bad people in this world that look at the rest of society as potential victims.
2. Don’t assume that other people share your moral standards and sense of right or wrong or are willing to play by your rules.
3. Don’t assume that your superior intellect and magnificent skills at dialogue will convert these people to your way of thinking.
4. Don’t believe that anybody with a 16-page rap sheet can EVER be rehabilitated.
5. Fight to defend what you hold dear. There is always someone out there who is willing to take what you have if you don’t defend it.
6. Don’t be naive.
1. There are bad people in this world that look at the rest of society as potential victims.
2. Don’t assume that other people share your moral standards and sense of right or wrong or are willing to play by your rules.
3. Don’t assume that your superior intellect and magnificent skills at dialogue will convert these people to your way of thinking.
4. Don’t believe that anybody with a 16-page rap sheet can EVER be rehabilitated.
5. Fight to defend what you hold dear. There is always someone out there who is willing to take what you have if you don’t defend it.
6. Don’t be naive.
Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:01 pm
Wow!!! ... fun posts huh? ... hehehehe, that's what I like about this forum. Lot's of great debate, and a few comics to boot, what a great country. See what a 12 hour flight can drum up? lolol
OK folks, let me state just a few things here for all the tough guys ... lololol, just kidding ... wait I'll be right back .... I need more milk to go with my cookies. OK I'm back ... boy I sure hope I don't break a nail typing all this. hehehehehe!
OK ... First of all, I'm a vet too, my Dad's a vet and my uncle made the ultimate sacrifice, he's buried in Arlington National Cemetary, so I might, JUST MIGHT, know a small little thing about honor, duty, country, and sacrifice. ..... YOU THINK? .... so I also may, just may, know a small, tiny little bit about how WAR SUCKS! ... but again, BE VERY CAREFUL how you read and interpret my original post. Cowards start wars, period! ... (ever hear of Adolf Hitler?, Tojo?) ... those are the cowards that came to my mind in my original post. I'm reading a few of you stating Coward's fight in wars ... NO, NO, NO! .... be careful, be very careful kids. ... Wow! where's that barber?, where's that dudes therapist wife? .... I need to eat another cookie. ... lolol, yum! yum! ... OK, I feel better again, wow!, what good cookies and milk can do ... lololol, oh darn, did I break a nail just now? ... no matter, a good long bubble bath will take care of that little mishap.
So enough of me .... NOW! the original post, Question to you all, does anyone ever look at a B-17 sitting at an airshow and think about how much death and destruction that machine has caused? .. NOT talking about the sacrifice of all the airman lost flying them, not the axis evil it helped destroy, not the symbol of strength and protection to our democratic way of life, but of innocent civilian life lost by the very nature of it's design.
A little story .... I have a friend who's parents are from Germany, very nice people, but whenever a B-17 arrives in Santa Barbara for a few days, and the whole town knows when one arrives, his parents literally lock themselves in their house .... because allied bomber raids killed their parents in Frankfurt during the war and they were innocent civilians. They don't hate America, they don't blame allied airpower during the war, they simply are afraid of what they used to see in the air by the hundreds when they were children. But they also know that the loss of their parents helped to give them the life they have now. And the life we all have now. So I guess I can understand how a B-17 could scare the hell out of them. Poor folks. See .... who can tell me WAR doesn't SUCK!
So ... I know we love to talk about airplane part serial #'s and such, but I think it's great for some of us to debate some different issues that are somewhat related to warbirds that we love. Just remember to be nice and respectful. Isn't that what's fun about a good debate.
I better stop now, I don't want to get my laptop wet in this bubble bath .... lololol
OK folks, let me state just a few things here for all the tough guys ... lololol, just kidding ... wait I'll be right back .... I need more milk to go with my cookies. OK I'm back ... boy I sure hope I don't break a nail typing all this. hehehehehe!
OK ... First of all, I'm a vet too, my Dad's a vet and my uncle made the ultimate sacrifice, he's buried in Arlington National Cemetary, so I might, JUST MIGHT, know a small little thing about honor, duty, country, and sacrifice. ..... YOU THINK? .... so I also may, just may, know a small, tiny little bit about how WAR SUCKS! ... but again, BE VERY CAREFUL how you read and interpret my original post. Cowards start wars, period! ... (ever hear of Adolf Hitler?, Tojo?) ... those are the cowards that came to my mind in my original post. I'm reading a few of you stating Coward's fight in wars ... NO, NO, NO! .... be careful, be very careful kids. ... Wow! where's that barber?, where's that dudes therapist wife? .... I need to eat another cookie. ... lolol, yum! yum! ... OK, I feel better again, wow!, what good cookies and milk can do ... lololol, oh darn, did I break a nail just now? ... no matter, a good long bubble bath will take care of that little mishap.
So enough of me .... NOW! the original post, Question to you all, does anyone ever look at a B-17 sitting at an airshow and think about how much death and destruction that machine has caused? .. NOT talking about the sacrifice of all the airman lost flying them, not the axis evil it helped destroy, not the symbol of strength and protection to our democratic way of life, but of innocent civilian life lost by the very nature of it's design.
A little story .... I have a friend who's parents are from Germany, very nice people, but whenever a B-17 arrives in Santa Barbara for a few days, and the whole town knows when one arrives, his parents literally lock themselves in their house .... because allied bomber raids killed their parents in Frankfurt during the war and they were innocent civilians. They don't hate America, they don't blame allied airpower during the war, they simply are afraid of what they used to see in the air by the hundreds when they were children. But they also know that the loss of their parents helped to give them the life they have now. And the life we all have now. So I guess I can understand how a B-17 could scare the hell out of them. Poor folks. See .... who can tell me WAR doesn't SUCK!
So ... I know we love to talk about airplane part serial #'s and such, but I think it's great for some of us to debate some different issues that are somewhat related to warbirds that we love. Just remember to be nice and respectful. Isn't that what's fun about a good debate.
I better stop now, I don't want to get my laptop wet in this bubble bath .... lololol