First Through The "Sound Barrier"!?!?

[cooper9411]

Hold on, I'm almost done

[Nathan]

Hi all!

First lurk of the week for me on wix. Nice to see a subject dear to my heart. Welch is a great hero of mine. I firmly believe the evidence show Welch breaking the Barrier first. But Yeager was the one that was able to do it first "publicly". I think the USAF covered up a good deal to keep Welch's account top secret until more studying could be made. Remember some thought it was possible but the pilot would be killed trying. Welch proved it could be done and survive. So they let Yeager be the "first" and have it publicly announced since it was considered safe. I remember Yeager doing a great deal of Welch bashing. Obvious signs the old Gen. was jealous of an accomplishment he never really made.

[mustangdriver]

I will try and keep it simple for those that still love a good story.

1)NACA pitched a fit about making sure that only the measuring equipment that they had would be the ONLY equipment considered accurate for a Sound barrier attempt. All parties agreed, and it was posted that no NACA equipment=no sound barrier claim. The X-1 was ready to go for months, but had to wait for this equipment.

2)To this day NACA engineers still continue to prove that the F-86 Welch had at the time did not have an engine in it that would allow it to break the soundbarrier. One of them just wrote a book telling about it.

3)Welch's "proof" is a bunch of pilots think they heard it. Thats it

SO BASICALLY

[andyman64]

not saying that welsch didn,t do it first but could it be that every one on the planet knows what an a$$hole yeager is and no one wants to give him the credit?

[mustangdriver]

I think you are close to the target there. But that doesn't give us the right to change history because we don't like someone. What if Babe Ruth was a jerk? Should we just down play his greatness as a ball player. Just because some one isn't liked doesn't mean that we have the right to take away their accomplishments.

[bipe215]

Did the 'bunch of pilots' (and others) who heard Welch's boom suddenly become credible 20 minutes later when they heard Yeager's boom? Nobody here can 100% percent prove that Welch did it, but no one can 100% prove that he did not.

Steve

[mustangdriver]

No, Yeager's flight had the measuring equipment in place for the attempt. It was not based off of just what some folks swear they heard. Also remember no one had ever heard a sonic boom. How many people do you know that go to airshows, see the T-birds .8 pass and swear they heard the boom?

[bipe215]

Alot of people had heard sonic booms. V-2's were 'booming' on a regular basis at White Sands. Everyone knew to expect a boom. Welch and Yeager were telling others to listen for it. Its not like there were a bunch of other types of booms to confuse it with.
I wonder why the Air Force Historical Studies Office uses those three little words 'in level flight' when describing Yeager's accomplishment:

http://www.afhso.af.mil/topics/factshee ... p?id=15194

And I've never, in 45 years of going to airshows ever heard someone claim they heard a sonic boom.

Steve

Last edited by bipe215 on Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mustangdriver]

They use those words because even the Welch guys can't argue with it. Once again not measuring equipment=no soundbarrier. One standdard will do just fine.

[bipe215]

You can't say that without measuring equipment, you can't break the sound barrier. That's like saying you couldn't have an earthquake before seismographs were invented.


Steve

[mustangdriver]

I didn't say it, NACA did. That was their rule. It was understood by all that without it any attempts wouldn't be considered valid. The order of the day was no equipment, no sound barrier. It wasn't no equipment, no sound barrier unless george welch tries it first. And once again his own engineers say that his airplane was not capable of doing it anyway.

[bipe215]

Good grief. No body is claiming Welch's boom was official. But just because something isn't official according to some governing body, doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's pretty weak.

Steve

[JDK]

This is one of those tedious arguments that comes around again and again, in this case from a zombie thread. Great.

Nobody here can 100% percent prove that Welch did it, but no one can 100% prove that he did not.

There's no onus on 'proving he did not'. I'm not suggesting Steve's doing this, but just bear in mind the demand from negative proof is a classic symptom of conspiracy-theorist dubious data management.

Good grief. No body is claiming Welch's boom was official. But just because something isn't official according to some governing body, doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's pretty weak.

The correct term is that Yeager in the Bell X-1 was officially the first through the sound barrier, because it was documented. It is a documented fact. Certainly it is possible that other may have been through the sound barrier first - but without documentation it will be a disputed possibility. Hence the 'official data' validates the Bell X-1 and Yeager and no other precursor, as Chris is saying.

It's not a question of something only being recognised because it's documented, but the documentation ensures it is a fact, not a matter of opinion. This is part of the basic scientific method. (The other element, that the experiment can be repeated with the same results under identical conditions, is of note.)

For those who loathe Yeager, there's comfort in that the achievement did not count as an internationally recognised speed record with the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI) because the X-1 was not a self-launched aircraft capable of taking off and getting the record in the same flight, a base requirement for such pure speed (not the barrier) aeronautical records.

Regards,

Last edited by JDK on Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[mustangdriver]

[quote="bipe215"]Good grief. No body is claiming Welch's boom was official. But just because something isn't official according to some governing body, doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's pretty weak.

Steve[/quote

Acoording to the USAF and NACA it did.

[Fearless Tower]

I remember Yeager doing a great deal of Welch bashing. Obvious signs the old Gen. was jealous of an accomplishment he never really made.

That's just Yeager being Yeager...he'll bash anybody that doesn't think he's the greatest pilot that ever lived.