"GREAT WALDO PEPPER" Final Dogfight Scene

[JDK]

Thanks, Mike. In that case it was the one flown by the RAAF Museum for a number of years, but grounded about a decade ago, and it is indeed now static at the Museum of Army Flying, Oakey, Queensland. I must tell them they've been mistaken for a mall next time I'm up there.

Flew as VH-ALU, according to theis pic by my friend Phil Vabre:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Fokker-D ... 822c865089

Regards,

[Baldeagle]

http://impdb.org/index.php?title=The_Great_Waldo_Pepper

I'm 99% sure that this is incorrect info. Although it is on the internet, so.....

If you google around you'll see that the Triplane built by John Shively in Florida, which spent several years at Duxford (with OFMC?), is listed as having been used for "Waldo Pepper",
http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1002328/ , this is also incorrect.

When I worked for Kermit he told me that he had traded the Camel and Triplane to Tony Bianchi, and that the Triplane was so rough that Tony didn't want to fly it, so it ended up hanging up somewhere, mall or shopping center, never to fly again.



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[Baldeagle]

ex-Waldo Pepper Sopwith Camel in action with Tony Bianchi in England:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQRtj8qmMjg



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[sledge39]

..."rudder controls failed," causing the crash. I think fellow Tallmantz pilot Frank Pine crashed another Tallmantz Nieuport at about the same time...

..according to the guys who built the Nieuport replica...

...the rudder system failed because the bungee system installed to enable Tallman to fly with one leg overloaded the related structure resulting in an uncommanded snap roll...

. N2SR...74/1/21


...Frank Pine bent the Tallmantz Garland-Lincoln Nieuport six days earlier...

. N12237...74/1/15


http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 3617&key=0

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief ... 3720&key=0

.. JD

[sledge39]

"Waldo.." ...the trailer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&featu ... fZhXhCGwEA


"Waldo.." ...the final scene...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl5cHWwo ... re=related

[JohnB]

I took out the old Tallman Book, Flying the Old Planes to see if it could add anything.
Sadly, it was written before the film. But the book does discuss the types used in the film, but I can't be sure if it's the same Triplane or Camel used in the film.

Same Jenny and J-1 though.

[JDK]

I'm 99% sure that this is incorrect info. Although it is on the internet, so.....

When I worked for Kermit he told me that he had traded the Camel and Triplane to Tony Bianchi, and that the Triplane was so rough that Tony didn't want to fly it, so it ended up hanging up somewhere, mall or shopping center, never to fly again.

As a general observation, this is why quoting and using serial numbers and registrations is the only reliable way of tracking this kind of thing!

My 19th Edition of Ken Ellis' Wrecks and Relics (2004 date info) lists four Dr.1s in the UK, none with a quoted ex-UK history, except G-AGTM, previously G-ATJM, EI-APY and N78001 at a private strip in Berkshire. W&R is very good at covering mallrats and replicas, so it's either one of the four without history listed, or it aint' there.

(The others are one at Kent Battle of Britain Museum, Hawkings, only id being the non-flying BAPC.36; scale replica BAPC.88 at the Fleet Air Arm Museum, Yeovilton; and Breighton's Real aeroplane Co's G-BVGZ - a Viv Bellamy (UK) built replica, PFA 238-12654.)

(Even less likely is the Fokker Robin Bowes was sadly killed in - G-BEFR, which was another Viv Bellamy example, I find on checking.)

The Personal Plane Services (Bianchi) Camel is listed as having gone to Compton Abbas, Dorset, and is G-BPOB painted as 'B2458'. According to the CAA listing, it's a Tallmantz built replica, serial TM-10, so that fits, and is still Bianchi aviation Film services owned.

http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?c ... gmark=BPOB

Fokker G-ATJM seems to have been German built, and used in The Blue Max and Flyboys, but not American built and no mention of use in Waldo, and now GXXXXXn [EDIT: French]-based - so that's a red herring, not a red Fokker, IMHO.

:Head scratch:

Last edited by JDK on Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Baldeagle]

'TJM has been sold to France, hasn't it?



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[Dan Jones]

I'm pretty sure that Tallman's original Camel (the one in his book) was auctioned off after the death of Paul Mantz and prior to the making of the movie. I think it went for $40 000 and went somewhere in... Arkansas?

Dan

Last edited by Dan Jones on Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[JDK]

'TJM has been sold to France, hasn't it?

Yes, according to the CAA database, it went from the UK to France. http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?c ... gmark=ATJM

According to the French register it's now F-AZPQ and based at la Ferte. Found via Scamble.
http://www.immat.aviation-civile.gouv.f ... 0008Q0U000

http://forum.scramble.nl/viewtopic.php?p=415106

But that Fokker's not the Fokker we're F... after!

Regards,

[Jungmann]

Folks who suggested the "Hollywood" stuff from Waldo Pepper was shot in Southern California were right. The location was a valley back in the Los Padres north and a little east of Fillmore. Forget its name. I flew in during filming once in a rented Great Lakes out of Santa Paula, another day in Bucker 853N when I had it, trying to get it in the movie. I think it's in one shot, in the background, but they got it for free,

Tallman and his guys were the principal flying guys, but Mike Dewey out of Santa Paula also flew in some shots and provided some airplanes.

They had a Tiger Moth with Nieuport tail feathers--Redford was in the back seat, and the camera was mounted where the front seat windscreen would go, shooting backwards. The shot was framed so it looked like Redford was flying. It really was Jim Appleby, ducked out of sight in the front seat below the field of view, flying by peeking out sideways. He circled that narrow valley and flung the Moth around pretty good. He told me there was a wide lens on the camera, so he could look up and see Redford's face reflected, like a fish-eye mirror. Redford didn't like all of it.

[JDK]

Great insight, many thanks!

Redford didn't like all of it.

Can't say I blame him though - I certainly wouldn't! He'd have to have been pretty insensitive if he did 'like' all of that, going by the description. Obviously it proved safe enough, but we can all think of scenarios where several factors changed like that (real pilot in unconventional posture position, tail mods) contributed to accidents...

Regards,

[Dan Jones]

Just sitting here watching the movie on DVD and, though it's a beautiful job, the Camel has a radial in it. But aside from that it's one accurate looking Camel! Even the cowling looks right.

Dan

[Jerry O'Neill]

In the film, the sound effects of a Rotary engine are played over the Camel.

[Dan Jones]

In the film, the sound effects of a Rotary engine are played over the Camel.

That's true, and it was done so convincingly that (and knowing that Tallman had a real Camel) I never questioned it until tonight. Great flick.