Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:37 pm
retroaviation wrote:
I'm sorry, but my stuff isn't all that interesting these days. All I really have to post is stuff on my little racer, and that just doesn't seem to do it for most of the Warbird crowd.
Gary
Gary, don't be ashamed of your little racer. Lots of famous pilots had little racers. Tony LeVier had Cosmic Wind, Art Chester had the Jeep, etc. etc. Just remember, the Ron Jeremy's of the racing world with big racers like Rare Bear are just that, rare. It's not the size of the racer, it's how it makes those pylon turns
Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:42 pm
Hey Gary, maybe you can put a couple of .30s in it. 
Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:46 pm
Hey everyone, Looks like we almost turned this thread into exactly what Bill was talking about.
Bill, I agree with you, there's been less substance than usual lately and this fact has probably lead to some people getting frustrated. I do think people need to cool it a little. If things are lacking people should really think of an interesting question, or interesting story to post. A lot of posts are theoretical questions or are set up for people to take sides, but like mentioned, you are very much allowed to take sides, but that doesn't entitle you to ignore other peoples' views and fling back at them if they mention a short coming of your favourite airplane.
I am a big fan of the Spitfire. Mainly because of it's beauty and my small bias for the Commonwealth Air Forces. Call that Canadian pride or what-have-you. I think that the Spit in a way is a better plane than the Mustang, but to the same extend the Mustang is better than the Spitfire in some categories. Seeing as how I haven't flown in either, I'm all ears to the conversations comparing the two. As much as I love the Spit, the Mustang is good too. Enough about that.
k5dh, I totally agree with you! I am like you. A nobody in the warbird world. I intend for that to change. I'm involved with my local museum, but it's a fair drive... and combine that with a busy life, I do what I can to support my museum from home. I would love to have an airplane engine in my basement to tinker with, but... I don't. I have to get my kicks from fundraising efforts and working on the museum newsletter.
And Bill, as I write this I just noticed you added another comment. I agree with you that after reading Hellcat's post, David did have a fairly pointed comment directed to Hellcat. Hellcat's response didn't help either.
I wish I could be posting about something more interesting than arguing, but it seems the "In thing to do" these days.
Cheers,
David
P.S. here's a little shameless advertising... hehe... I'm trying to make things interesting on here with my post about the PBY at Nanaimo airport that I'm still trying to save. Gulp, there are some pictures in it, but they're pretty relevant to the conversation. Cheers!
Bill, I agree with you, there's been less substance than usual lately and this fact has probably lead to some people getting frustrated. I do think people need to cool it a little. If things are lacking people should really think of an interesting question, or interesting story to post. A lot of posts are theoretical questions or are set up for people to take sides, but like mentioned, you are very much allowed to take sides, but that doesn't entitle you to ignore other peoples' views and fling back at them if they mention a short coming of your favourite airplane.
I am a big fan of the Spitfire. Mainly because of it's beauty and my small bias for the Commonwealth Air Forces. Call that Canadian pride or what-have-you. I think that the Spit in a way is a better plane than the Mustang, but to the same extend the Mustang is better than the Spitfire in some categories. Seeing as how I haven't flown in either, I'm all ears to the conversations comparing the two. As much as I love the Spit, the Mustang is good too. Enough about that.
k5dh, I totally agree with you! I am like you. A nobody in the warbird world. I intend for that to change. I'm involved with my local museum, but it's a fair drive... and combine that with a busy life, I do what I can to support my museum from home. I would love to have an airplane engine in my basement to tinker with, but... I don't. I have to get my kicks from fundraising efforts and working on the museum newsletter.
And Bill, as I write this I just noticed you added another comment. I agree with you that after reading Hellcat's post, David did have a fairly pointed comment directed to Hellcat. Hellcat's response didn't help either.
I wish I could be posting about something more interesting than arguing, but it seems the "In thing to do" these days.
Cheers,
David
P.S. here's a little shameless advertising... hehe... I'm trying to make things interesting on here with my post about the PBY at Nanaimo airport that I'm still trying to save. Gulp, there are some pictures in it, but they're pretty relevant to the conversation. Cheers!
Gary
Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:57 pm
Gary, in the interest of levity, which seems badly needed now, I thought about writing something like, Yea Gary was great with the B-24, but what has he done for us this week? Then I feared if I wrote it tongue-in-cheek without notice, someone would take it at face value as serious and overrev.
I think most of us enjoy your posts about the races and wish you safe flying with your little speedster. I want to come and see how you get in that thing, especially with a chute.
I think most of us enjoy your posts about the races and wish you safe flying with your little speedster. I want to come and see how you get in that thing, especially with a chute.
Last edited by Bill Greenwood on Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:03 pm
I wish I could be posting about something more interesting than arguing, but it seems the "In thing to do" these days.
No! No! No! ... it's NOT the "in thing to do" these days. Try no to think that way please.
Look people, I persoanlly had a little meltdown today and forgot who I was, but for some reason when I have good intentions with a post that personally I thought would have been interesting and get a response to "respect the memory of Dec 7, 1941"? ... well, even I have a limit. I have no idea where David got that from, but now it really doesn't matter. He took my post the wrong way and I took his posts the wrong way, ... I think anyway, ... but for the most part, there is NOTHING WRONG with WIX. It's a very well run website and again I'll state it, most everyone here, ... with the exception of me today, ... has good, respectful, honorable intentions and I can't imagine anyone, ... with the exception of me today, ... wants to insult, embarrass or disrespect anyone, .... with the exception of me today, of course,
. ...
So, believe it or not, I think this is actually a great thread from Bill, especially when he defends me ... love ya Bill ...
Hey, look everyone .... I FEEL GREAT NOW!!!!! .... amazing what booze will do to the spirit ....
Some of you guys should get your butts down to your local war bird hangar and burn a little of this pent up energy on something meaningful
Dan does that include drinking or do you guys have a "dry hangar"? ... check your PM's ...
Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:49 pm
First, notice this is my second post; my first one was yesterday.
I've been lurking for over a year, but I am no stranger to internet discussion forums, in fact, I've been a Moderator and part-owner of a military discussion board for 8 years. (Google 'Tanknet' if you are interested)
By their very nature a discussion board allows people to become impersonal in their discussions with others, as you lose the face-to-face interaction with the people you are conversing with. This sometimes leads to a mis-interpretation of the intent of a poster. Some people actually thrive on conflict, while others literally do not have a clue about what they expound on.
What you are seeing is not unique; trust your Moderator to apply restraints where necessary.
I come here because of a love of aircraft, military aircraft in particular. I like the pictures, the 'inside looks' into the restorations, the organizations, the personal stories. Like most, my connections to the actual machines is tenuous; I can claim 'stick time', but not proficiency in a Stearman, T-34 and an OA-37B, and I've ridden in a B-17 and a C-47 which makes me far from an expert. I will usually only post on items with which I am familar in an effort to pass on what knowledge I can.
Ignore the problems that will occaisionally pop up and enjoy the good stuff here, which is the majority.
Just my $.02
I've been lurking for over a year, but I am no stranger to internet discussion forums, in fact, I've been a Moderator and part-owner of a military discussion board for 8 years. (Google 'Tanknet' if you are interested)
By their very nature a discussion board allows people to become impersonal in their discussions with others, as you lose the face-to-face interaction with the people you are conversing with. This sometimes leads to a mis-interpretation of the intent of a poster. Some people actually thrive on conflict, while others literally do not have a clue about what they expound on.
What you are seeing is not unique; trust your Moderator to apply restraints where necessary.
I come here because of a love of aircraft, military aircraft in particular. I like the pictures, the 'inside looks' into the restorations, the organizations, the personal stories. Like most, my connections to the actual machines is tenuous; I can claim 'stick time', but not proficiency in a Stearman, T-34 and an OA-37B, and I've ridden in a B-17 and a C-47 which makes me far from an expert. I will usually only post on items with which I am familar in an effort to pass on what knowledge I can.
Ignore the problems that will occaisionally pop up and enjoy the good stuff here, which is the majority.
Just my $.02
Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:47 pm
Bill I agree with you. I started a thread about the A330 vs. the 767 and I will admit I was very upset at the decision to go with Airbus over my current full time employer Boeing but my frustration was never aimed at anyone on WIX or even EADS but several people who have nothing to do with EADS, Boeing or the military made very pointed and venomous attacks on me and other WIXXER's. For some reason they took things way out of context and way out of line. Each one professing their expertise but not their professionalism. I suppose it is human nature to get offended by the words and actions of others however it is also human nature to have control or take control of ones own actions and words.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:04 pm
k5083 wrote:Hellcat, I'm sorry, but Ryan is right. It is not a case of "even" you can be pushed; you actually push pretty darn easy, and I can't figure out why you reacted to David's corrections/clarifications in the Pearl thread the way you did. Your posts in this thread "Don't tell me about History..." make you look like one of the people Bill is talking about, who know everything and have nothing to learn. I realize you're probably not that way and it's just hasty posting that makes you look so. Ryan's advice to cool off before posting is sound. But do keep posting, you have been bringing some good fresh energy to the board.
August
Sound advice August. Mr. Aiken is clearly an esteemed expert on Pearl Harbor and he can reject the premise of the "what if" post on the grounds it can propagate historical myths and inaccuracies, but he could benefit from your advice as well and didn't need to give Hellcat such a rhetorical b*tch slap. His response was out of proportion to any perceived misstep on Hellcat's part--there wasn't one as far as my dense mind could see. I could go down the road of: what's the point of an esteemed historian doing surfing a forum with mostly armchair historians? Kinda like a college basketball player combing a YMCA gym for a pickup game just so he can bust their b*lls and show the local rubes how much better he is. But that wouldn't be fair either. Mr Rogers always said it was ok, even healthy to pretend so "what iffing" can't be too unhealthy right? Yah Hellcat overreacted but there was some unecessary provocation. I've "stepped on it" on this forum and have learned a lot since about internet comm...in some ways it's a strange medium for humans to communicate. Oh and yes, a thick skin is in order too. Thanks for the insightful post.
Last edited by T33driver on Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:14 pm
Hellcat,
sorry if you thought that was directly solely at you. Far from it. It was ment jokingly. I don't think there's anyone out there that would always try to argue. With my joking I guess I demonstrated the fact that a message isn't always received the same way it was intended. Humour and sarcasm are very dangerous to use online.
Cheers,
David
sorry if you thought that was directly solely at you. Far from it. It was ment jokingly. I don't think there's anyone out there that would always try to argue. With my joking I guess I demonstrated the fact that a message isn't always received the same way it was intended. Humour and sarcasm are very dangerous to use online.
Cheers,
David
Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:24 pm
Dave,
Great post. I've been discussing the day's events with my father and something similar came to my mind. I think that we would all benefit from thinking of the other posters as people. I have met a bunch of other WIXers at various places. I can think of Tim Landers, Obergrafeter, Lady02pilot, Elroy13, DougR, and several others right off hand. When posting, remember that you might run into them sometime soon at an airshow near you! Think what kind of reputation you would like to have! Personally, I know that I have had differences of opinion with some other WIXers, but would be fine meeting them at an airshow or a museum. It also helps put things in perspective. It's easy to take offense at a post - when you don't know the person behind the post and don't know how to "read" them.
Ryan
Great post. I've been discussing the day's events with my father and something similar came to my mind. I think that we would all benefit from thinking of the other posters as people. I have met a bunch of other WIXers at various places. I can think of Tim Landers, Obergrafeter, Lady02pilot, Elroy13, DougR, and several others right off hand. When posting, remember that you might run into them sometime soon at an airshow near you! Think what kind of reputation you would like to have! Personally, I know that I have had differences of opinion with some other WIXers, but would be fine meeting them at an airshow or a museum. It also helps put things in perspective. It's easy to take offense at a post - when you don't know the person behind the post and don't know how to "read" them.
Ryan
Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:35 pm
T33driver wrote:I could go down the road of: what's the point of an esteemed historian doing surfing a forum with mostly armchair historians? Kinda like a college basketball player combing a YMCA gym for a pickup game just so he can bust their b*lls and show the local rubes how much better he is. But that wouldn't be fair either. Mr Rogers always said it was ok, even healthy to pretend so "what iffing" can't be too unhealthy right?
Actually, that's one of the reason's I've stayed on WIX. I LOVE it when some of our members actually prove their expertise! I love hanging out where I can learn from other warbird pilots, meet an L-bird expert like Jim Grey the other day (with the L-5 thread), and talk with real live historians like David and Jack who regularly work with materials from the National Archives, Tulio who has access to Latin American information, or Martin (aka Swiss Mustangs) who is a genius when it comes to P-51s. I try to contribute what I can as a L-bird driver and event coordinator. It's usually a lot of fun, and I'm glad I found this place.
Ryan
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Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:38 pm
Scott's what if on what if England had folded to Germany in 1940 didn't generate any flak like this one did. My question is why???
But my response to the Pearl Harbor what if is....if we had lost those carriers the rest of forces would have been place to defend the west coast of the US. The Japabese would have had a excellent chance of gaining a strong foothold in Alaska. Midway would have never have happended nor Guadalcanal and the victories beyond. It would have been a domino effect. IMHO, by missing our carriers at PH Japan losing WWII was inevitable. The battleships were of no factor at all.
But my response to the Pearl Harbor what if is....if we had lost those carriers the rest of forces would have been place to defend the west coast of the US. The Japabese would have had a excellent chance of gaining a strong foothold in Alaska. Midway would have never have happended nor Guadalcanal and the victories beyond. It would have been a domino effect. IMHO, by missing our carriers at PH Japan losing WWII was inevitable. The battleships were of no factor at all.
Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:27 pm
I've been watching the board lately and have seen a decline in interesting stories...which is the fault of no one...things are just slow. I post photos from the road once in a while to break up the monotony. Watching Gary work on his Shoestring is great stuff...I have a Cassutt that is 99.9% done and it is great to see something similar come to fruition. There are several great and upcoming warbirds that are about to hit the scene...such as C Malcolm Mustang being built up for John Sessions, Texas Raiders returning to the air, the Jack Roush C, and the John Paul C...just have to be patient. There may even be some news coming from the Foundation that will be exciting...who knows
JimH
JimH
Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:49 pm
It seems email and forums alike have the same failings. Because we cannot see the facial expression of the author, because we cannot hear the language intonations, we sometimes get reactions that are totally unexpected !
I experienced that a few times at work. It is so easy to get misunderstood...
Then add to the receipe the fact that english is not my primary language and I sometimes am completely baffled by the turn some of the discussions are taking here on WIX.
Personally, I am like some others. I love warbirds, don't even know the nuances between a Mk.1 and Mk whatever, let alone the proper designation of all the warbirds I see, flying or static. But I love them.
I come here because so many people seem to really know what they are talking about, and I learn. A lot. And I'm sure I will continue to do so by coming back.
It is only ennoying at times when someone attacks another personally, just because he does not agree with a statement.
And then, one of them comes back on line, and apologises. And I respect that. And it makes me want to continue reading your posts.
Please keep posting. I, non-warbirds pro, am litterally eating your words and never have enough... but please try keeping it civilized. Or use the pm key more often if you really have to...
I experienced that a few times at work. It is so easy to get misunderstood...
Then add to the receipe the fact that english is not my primary language and I sometimes am completely baffled by the turn some of the discussions are taking here on WIX.
Personally, I am like some others. I love warbirds, don't even know the nuances between a Mk.1 and Mk whatever, let alone the proper designation of all the warbirds I see, flying or static. But I love them.
I come here because so many people seem to really know what they are talking about, and I learn. A lot. And I'm sure I will continue to do so by coming back.
It is only ennoying at times when someone attacks another personally, just because he does not agree with a statement.
And then, one of them comes back on line, and apologises. And I respect that. And it makes me want to continue reading your posts.
Please keep posting. I, non-warbirds pro, am litterally eating your words and never have enough... but please try keeping it civilized. Or use the pm key more often if you really have to...
Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:27 pm
Dean wrote:
I really wish this board had more "nobodys" like this, and fewer nobodys that think they're somebodys.
In the grand scheme of things, I'm really a "nobody". I'm not a pilot. I'm not an A&P mechanic. I don't own a warbird. I don't know bunches of great warriors. I'm not on a first-name basis with the "who's who" of the warbird world. I wouldn't know most of them if they walked right up and looked me in the eye. I'm just a part-time, unskilled, volunteer "worker droid" at a small museum.
I really wish this board had more "nobodys" like this, and fewer nobodys that think they're somebodys.