Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:31 pm
Those are great Scott! Was the sub-depot hanger shot in the museum? I must of missed it! Here is a foundation to ponder(its next door to the bombsight vault), wonder what the square hole would be for?
I have noticed a lot of small square concrete stubs sticking out of the ground(you can see a couple in the background). Is that how they supported buildings and barracks? Thanks for all your info.
I have noticed a lot of small square concrete stubs sticking out of the ground(you can see a couple in the background). Is that how they supported buildings and barracks? Thanks for all your info.
Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:45 am
Steve,
The Sub-Depot employee photo is in the Museum, I think on the same wall as the Bell '29 with 1 and 2 feathered.
I have to plead ignorance on that foundation with the rectangular hole in the corner. It may have been an oil/paint storage building, but those are always brick or cinderblock construction in the Midwest. The oil storage buildings often have a hole in the floor somewhat like the example you photographed. I plan on getting a copy of the Building Key and cantonment layout if one still exists. Having the key and map will answer the question.
Those little concrete posts are the foundation pilings for some of the buildings on the field. As a means of saving concrete many barracks and other structures had wooden floors and joists and were set on these pilings. Here is a photo of the hospital grounds at Alliance AAF in western Nebraska.
There are literally thousands of the concrete posts in this photo, and there had to be, as the Alliance Hospital had capacity for over 500 beds. Incidentally, the hospital area will be the site of a new National Cemetery that will overlook the cantonment area and airfield at Alliance.
Scott
The Sub-Depot employee photo is in the Museum, I think on the same wall as the Bell '29 with 1 and 2 feathered.
I have to plead ignorance on that foundation with the rectangular hole in the corner. It may have been an oil/paint storage building, but those are always brick or cinderblock construction in the Midwest. The oil storage buildings often have a hole in the floor somewhat like the example you photographed. I plan on getting a copy of the Building Key and cantonment layout if one still exists. Having the key and map will answer the question.
Those little concrete posts are the foundation pilings for some of the buildings on the field. As a means of saving concrete many barracks and other structures had wooden floors and joists and were set on these pilings. Here is a photo of the hospital grounds at Alliance AAF in western Nebraska.
There are literally thousands of the concrete posts in this photo, and there had to be, as the Alliance Hospital had capacity for over 500 beds. Incidentally, the hospital area will be the site of a new National Cemetery that will overlook the cantonment area and airfield at Alliance.
Scott
Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:08 pm
Steve, Scott - From the satellite view of Pyote AAF, I noticed what appears to be a somewhat well-kept road running from the apron out to the far runway area, splitting at about 3/4 of the way out. The two roads then go to something straight and parallel to the runways. Have any ideas on the reason for the road(s) and what they go to? Have you driven this road, Steve? Thanks for any info on this. The more I study the satellite view, the more questions I seem to have!
Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:29 pm
Y'all just be careful out there. I heard (whatever that's worth) that they're going to start prosecuting trespassers at the Rattlesnake Bomber Base.
Just give me a call if you need to be bailed out Steve. I'll come down in a few days and post bond for you.
Gary
Just give me a call if you need to be bailed out Steve. I'll come down in a few days and post bond for you.
Gary
Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:00 pm
george wrote:Steve, Scott - From the satellite view of Pyote AAF, I noticed what appears to be a somewhat well-kept road running from the apron out to the far runway area, splitting at about 3/4 of the way out. The two roads then go to something straight and parallel to the runways. Have any ideas on the reason for the road(s) and what they go to? Have you driven this road, Steve? Thanks for any info on this. The more I study the satellite view, the more questions I seem to have!
George, it would seem to me you are looking at the taxiways? Nothing is well kept around the base, if you want new pinstripes added to the paint job, go there
Some of the roads to the nodding donkeys are pretty decent but there are still some places that will get you. Not sure if I'm seeing what your seeing, the only places that are well maintained are the concrete areas, mesquite can't grow through 12 inches of concrete
Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:44 am
I'll try to help identify the road, George, but I've not actually been on the property yet. Are you talking about the road that goes around the north end of the runways and then parallels the northeast/southwest runway? If that is the road you're referring to it was originally the road to the Ordnance Storage Area and continued on around the field as a perimeter road of sorts. There is still an ordnance warehouse standing about a fifth of the way down that road from the north turn. All ammunition, explosives, chemical agents, and bombs were stored in this area. Here is a crummy photo of that building:
For all you explorers out there, Gary has a good point about these old airfields. Always try to get permission first. I've been "captured" by a concerned airfield fireman at, of all places, the former Ardmore Army Air Field, and the guy was pretty serious about calling the sheriff until he realized I was truly researching the airfield. I've never been denied full access when folks realize what I'm wanting to do, but that fellow at Ardmore made me a believer in making contact with someone first.
Scott
For all you explorers out there, Gary has a good point about these old airfields. Always try to get permission first. I've been "captured" by a concerned airfield fireman at, of all places, the former Ardmore Army Air Field, and the guy was pretty serious about calling the sheriff until he realized I was truly researching the airfield. I've never been denied full access when folks realize what I'm wanting to do, but that fellow at Ardmore made me a believer in making contact with someone first.
Scott
Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:05 pm
Thanks for the answers on that road, fellas.
Maybe a docent at the museum would put a researcher in contact with someone authorized to allow access to the base.
Great photo of the ammo storage building, Scott. I've been doing a little reading on another huge, abandoned airbase about 120 miles south of Pyote: Marfa AAF. Looks like it is more complete, remote (no prison, and farther from town), and accessible as there is an art museum taking up two ammo storage buildings. A B-25 base that was abandoned at the end of the war. The satellite image is amazing; it appears basically untouched since WWII. Roads also look in better condition than Pyote.
Maybe a docent at the museum would put a researcher in contact with someone authorized to allow access to the base.
Great photo of the ammo storage building, Scott. I've been doing a little reading on another huge, abandoned airbase about 120 miles south of Pyote: Marfa AAF. Looks like it is more complete, remote (no prison, and farther from town), and accessible as there is an art museum taking up two ammo storage buildings. A B-25 base that was abandoned at the end of the war. The satellite image is amazing; it appears basically untouched since WWII. Roads also look in better condition than Pyote.
Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:54 pm
Well Scott, just shows how ignorant I am 
. I had always thought that that building was "newer" than from WWII. I had the misconception that it was something a rancher put up to put stuff in. Thanks for clarifying that, that's why I didn't go check it out.
George, lets you and I take a field trip down to Marfa!
. I had always thought that that building was "newer" than from WWII. I had the misconception that it was something a rancher put up to put stuff in. Thanks for clarifying that, that's why I didn't go check it out.
George, lets you and I take a field trip down to Marfa!
Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:58 am
George, Marfa is one of those places I intend to document some day. It is a bit unusual for nearly all the foundations to be intact at these stations, and Marfa seems to have everything concrete still in place. Marfa was an Advanced Multi Engine Training field, hence the six runways and massive apron. By the latter part of the training scheme the Army was using the B-25 for a good share of Advanced rather than AT-10s and AT-17s. A great field to explore. I think Texas had something like 70 Army Air Fields and auxiliaries, so there isn't a lack of material to research.
That building at Pyote may be post-war like you thought, Steve, but I don't think it is. The cupolas and general design look pretty similar to other Ordnance Area storage warehouses I've seen--I wouldn't be able to prove my theory without a Base Building Key or blueprint of the structure. I've been wrong before on some of these buildings, and I'll be wrong again. Finding the info is part of the fun!
Scott
That building at Pyote may be post-war like you thought, Steve, but I don't think it is. The cupolas and general design look pretty similar to other Ordnance Area storage warehouses I've seen--I wouldn't be able to prove my theory without a Base Building Key or blueprint of the structure. I've been wrong before on some of these buildings, and I'll be wrong again. Finding the info is part of the fun!
Scott
Sub-Depot Hangar
Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:58 pm
Ever since we've started talking about Pyote I've been rooting around for photos and information. Here are a few of the Sub-Depot hangar during WWII and up to the current day. It's a shame it couldn't have been preserved.
Sub-Depot maintenance crew in a group photo in May of '45.
North doors during the B-29 reactivation in July of 1950. The "No Smoking" sign is still in place.
South doors, taken at the same time. Notice that the large windows on the west wall were still intact and a "lean-to" building had been built up to the upper windows.
A mid-seventies photo looking more-or-less to the north. The lean-to has been removed and the windows are plugged or painted over. You can still see the tar line on the wall just below the small window line where the roofing of the lean-to was sealed to the hangar wall.
This photo was taken from the top of the south door pocket, so you're looking at the same wall as in the two 1950 shots. You can still make out the small window frames at the top of the wall.
The shot I took from the perimeter road in February of 2008 looking south.
Scott
Sub-Depot maintenance crew in a group photo in May of '45.
North doors during the B-29 reactivation in July of 1950. The "No Smoking" sign is still in place.
South doors, taken at the same time. Notice that the large windows on the west wall were still intact and a "lean-to" building had been built up to the upper windows.
A mid-seventies photo looking more-or-less to the north. The lean-to has been removed and the windows are plugged or painted over. You can still see the tar line on the wall just below the small window line where the roofing of the lean-to was sealed to the hangar wall.
This photo was taken from the top of the south door pocket, so you're looking at the same wall as in the two 1950 shots. You can still make out the small window frames at the top of the wall.
The shot I took from the perimeter road in February of 2008 looking south.
Scott
Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:30 pm
Hey Scott those are great and thanks for the PM you sent me. Did you take the shot of the Sub-Depot from high up? And did you use the wood ladder on the north side to get up there?
Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:45 pm
Here is an add -on for the previous post Scott.
Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:36 pm
Steve,
I had that picture emailed to me by another airfield enthusiast. Thanks for the detail shots you've just put up. The last shot of the office/shop lean-to answers a question I had about how large that addition was. I'm guessing that was the Sub-Depot offices and probably some of the shops were in there too. On the PA style hangar that was built in Nebraska and Kansas the prop shop was usually in that part of the hangar.
Scott
I had that picture emailed to me by another airfield enthusiast. Thanks for the detail shots you've just put up. The last shot of the office/shop lean-to answers a question I had about how large that addition was. I'm guessing that was the Sub-Depot offices and probably some of the shops were in there too. On the PA style hangar that was built in Nebraska and Kansas the prop shop was usually in that part of the hangar.
Scott
Re: Rattlesnake bomber base museum
Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:57 pm
steve dickey wrote: I was wondering what the two 125's and the 150 numbers mean for the "Queen of Em All"?
Steve,
It just dawned on me that I never replied to your question about the 125 and 150 symbols on Queen Of 'Em All. I just got a copy of Rattlesnake Bomber Base By Thomas E. Alexander and found a passage about crew chief rewards in one chapter. It seems that Pyote had monthly contests on the flight line, and any crew chief who kept his Superfort in the air for 125 hours in one month got to paint his name on the aircraft. If it made 150 hours, he actually got to name his airplane. I suspect the small emblems you asked about are a similar program that was instituted at some of the other Second Air Force stations. I'm not certain if the decal reward became a standard program in 2AF or was just used at one or two bases from the investigating I've done so far. There are 125, 150, and 175 hour emblems in photos I have seen. Here is the right side of Queen Of 'Em All, taken at Grand Island with a 6th Bomb Group crew.
This photo of Jug Head was taken at Pyote, and shows the 150 emblem.
The 175 decal is the same sized square with a rather goofy-looking eagle with wings spread and the numbers on his belly. Hats off to the engine guys of any B-29 that could be kept airworthy for that many hours at a training station!
Scott
Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:29 pm
alot of those pictures of the abandoned buildings both interior & exterior gives the viewer an eerie feeling, those pics have real impact!! great job!!