TRI-STATE WARBIRD MUSEUM P-40M update

TOM WALSH · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 6:51 am

From my article on RCAF pilot Richard "Dick" DeBourke, an American from Newton, Mass.

The P-40K and M aircraft flown by "The Sharks" were powered by a V-1710-81 Allison (F20R), V-12 liquid-cooled, inline engine rated at 1,200 shaft horsepower. In 1942, the Curtiss-Wright Corporation of Buffalo, New York constructed a total of 616 of these two models. These variants were then supplied to several Commonwealth Air Forces and all were designated in service as Kittyhawk Mk. III's. RAF No. 112 FS was the first Allied unit to paint the "shark mouth" motiff on their aircraft. The fiercesome artwork first appeared on their P-40's in mid -1941. The idea was actually borrowered from the Luftwaffe after a 112 Squadron pilot had seen a picture in a popular weekly magazine of a twin-engined Messerschmitt Me 110 painted in a similar scheme!

Cheers,

TomWalsh.

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:11 am

That's right Tom. It has been recorded that it was Westenra who spotted that photo of the Me110 in the magazine and thought the sharks teeth would look great oin his aircraft. It caught on the squadron adopted it. The AVG pilots apparently saw photos of the 112 Sqn machines and copied them. No doubt the Me110 crew had been inspired by something else before it too, I have seen photos of WWI aircraft with similar artwork.

paulmcmillan · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:27 am

I believe a Video of her flying is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bXYn1j9lkY

C VEICH · **Joined:** Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:40 pm **Posts:** 1474

paulmcmillan wrote:

I believe a Video of her flying is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bXYn1j9lkY

One of the posters at the link above had a good question. Why the no flap landing? Beautiful airplane by the way and I love the markings.

Kammerdd · **Joined:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:03 pm **Posts:** 5

paulmcmillan wrote:

I believe a Video of her flying is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bXYn1j9lkY

This is in fact the P-40. I was talking to Paul yesterday and he said he has put about 3 hours on her. Even hinted at it flying better than a Mustang... :axe:

I can't wait to see it live!

Dave Homewood wrote:

By the way, I sent an email (I thought) to Tri-State a while back with some details I found in an RNZAF pilot's logbook who had flown this machine. I wondered why I didn't get a reply and after a little investigation later I think I may have sent it to Tri-State Aviation that rebuilds Mustangs, which it seems might be a totally different company (???). Whoops.

So, perhaps the people here associated with the aircraft might find this of interest. This is the message I sent:

"I currently have the loan of flying logbooks that belonged to the late pilot Dave Howlett. He flew NZ3119 on two occasions whilst he was training at No. 2 (Fighter) Operational Training Unit, at RNZAF Station Ohakea. The logbook entries are as follows:

8 November 1944 - 30 minutes of drogue firing with Cinegun (2 machine guns)
13 November 1944 - 45 minutes of evasive flying practive (with cine camera fitted)

I don't know if these snippets are of any interest but I thought it might be worth sending them through, in case you are compiling an archive of the aircraft's movements. I see numerous fighter pilots' logbooks from time to time so can keep an eye out for others if you would like.

By the way, I saw that the engine had been run, but has there been a first flight yet? We here in New Zealand are following the restoration project and await more news. It is wonderful that the aircraft will fly again in RNZAF colours. I hope it gets seen all across America in that colour scheme so the airshow fans can learn a little about NZ's war effort alongside the rest of the Allies."

Yes, any information on the birds is very much appreciated! I find it quite interesting. The P-40 does look very good, and quite at home in RNZAF colors, I am a huge fan of them myself. Its actually kind of nice to see that the airplane can and does look exceptional without the a sharks mouth on it. Don't get me wrong, I love the AVG and the sharks mouths, but the RNZAF was just as important and deserves to have its story told

Zac Yates · **Posted:** Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:44 pm

Beautiful. Just beautiful in every way. I hope Tri-State keeps her in those colours for some time to come. Thankyou so very much for the link.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:02 am

DaveM2 wrote:

mustangdriver wrote:

DaveM2 wrote:

OMG how is it this P-40 doesn't wear US markings (and a shark mouth)? I don't think US aircraft should wear foreign markings-it just isn't right :twisted:

Once again the reason that 99.9% of most people even give a P-40 a second look is because of the heritage of the AVG. The Allan collection is the only shot to get it right for a complete and correct AVG P-40. I for one favor US markings on US planes just as I prefer to see RAF markings on RAF aircraft, and so on.

Fortunately for those of us who have a genuine interest in history TriState have elected to respect the aircraft's pedigree, rather than pandering to the ignorant with window dressing.

.

Dave

A few things.

First off, well done to Tri State Air Museum. You guys did a great job on a historic aircraft. She looks beautiful.

Dave what you fail to see is that one is a museum, the other is a gentleman's private collection. This gentleman CHOOSES to share his collection with the public. There are no donation areas inside the building there. He doesn't owe anyone anything. He bought a P-40, and painted it in the markings he likes. That is his right. I am responding in this thread because the subject was brought to light once again in this thread. I think it was the right thing to do. You do not, and that is fine. Those are our opinions. One is not better than the other.

Dave Hadfield · **Joined:** Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:31 pm **Posts:** 1672

I have the impression that more P-40s/Tomahawks/Kittyhawks were flown by non-US pilots in combat, than US pilots.

Am I right? I don't have any figures at hand to back it up, but I did accomplish rather a lot of reading as a part of overseeing our P-40N restoration.

Although 13,000 were built, the vast majority were sent away Lend Lease, or stayed behind in the USA as training aircraft. The RAF, RAAF, RNZAF, operated them in large numbers, in some cases almost to the very end of the war -- not to mention the Russians of course. I think it's good to see this diversity reflected in modern restorations.

The paint job on ours is painstakingly researched and duplicates a 1942 Kittyhawk III onto a 2009 P-40N. It honours Stocky Edwards, a still-living Canadian ace, who flew such a machine with the RAF (260 Sqn), and who flew the airplane with me in 2009. I imagine the Tri-State P-40 tells a similar story.

Dave

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:59 pm

C VEICH wrote:

paulmcmillan wrote:

I believe a Video of her flying is here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bXYn1j9lkY

One of the posters at the link above had a good question. Why the no flap landing? Beautiful airplane by the way and I love the markings.

An answer from Paul

No problem with the flaps, I had to practice several no flap landings in preparation for my P-40 Type Rating flight check, hence the rather fast approach speed and bounces on roll-out. Our runway is only 3000’ long so it’s a bit of a challenge to get the ol’ girl slowed down with no flaps.

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:35 pm

A few things.

First off, well done to Tri State Air Museum. You guys did a great job on a historic aircraft. She looks beautiful.

Dave what you fail to see is that one is a museum, the other is a gentleman's private collection. This gentleman CHOOSES to share his collection with the public. There are no donation areas inside the building there. He doesn't owe anyone anything. He bought a P-40, and painted it in the markings he likes. That is his right. I am responding in this thread because the subject was brought to light once again in this thread. I think it was the right thing to do. You do not, and that is fine. Those are our opinions. One is not better than the other.[/quote]

I don't have a specific beef with FHC (with whom I have great relationship with). I do however take exception to the ridiculous notion that all aircraft should be finished in the colours of the country that manufactures them. There are a number of instances that it is in the service of another nation that they found fame or have more history with the type than the 'home' country. Brewster Buffalo and Ha 1112 Buchon come to mind, as well as P-40. History is supposed to be about learning, not reinforcing ignorance.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:41 pm

Dave, I never said they should be I just said that I like them. That is my preference on most aircraft, but that said there exceptions. This P-40 being one of them.

Kammerdd · **Joined:** Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:03 pm **Posts:** 5

I have a bit of bad news regarding the P-40. I saw a news report a few minutes ago (I live across the city from the Museum) that the aircraft overran the runway today and skidded snapping the gear. I don't have an solid facts (you know how local news is) but I did see a picture of it and it doesn't look to pretty. The news "quoted" the pilot (Paul) as having said it was some sort of piston slip. Again, I don't have any exact details as of yet.

I found a link to the initial report http://www.local12.com/news/local/story ... 1oG6Q.cspx

Here is one of the photos I have of her

Dave Homewood · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:50 pm

Oh no, that is incredibly sad news. My heart goes out to Paul and the team there.

Nathan · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:00 pm

I for one am glad to see it in RNZAF markings. We don't need AVG markings on every P-40 to make it noticable. (sorry Chris) :wink:

Noha307 · **Posted:** Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:46 pm

I found this thread while searching the web for other TSWM related things. Anyway, I would like to give an update on the P-40's progress: the wings have been dismantled and the leading edges sent out for repair/rebuild; the oil cooler and some other equipment have to go to New Zealand and...as of at least January 12...the new engine has been hung. :supz:

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