I'm a bit hesitant...

kzollitsch · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:21 pm

Mudge is referring to a line for dinner, not lunch. I could be wrong because I'm not involved with organizing shows, but I'm sure most airshows don't offer dinner for their performers. My guess is they take care of them during show time, and after the event closes for the day the performers are on their own. Here's your rental car, here's where you're staying, thanks and we'll see you tomorrow for briefing.

As for being hot at the show, it's summer and the organizers can't control the weather. I would hope and expect that water would be provided to any of the show particpants throughout the day.

k5083 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:46 pm

Also, don't forget that the show was in New York -- sort of. In New York, we complain a lot. It's hot, we complain. It's cold, we complain. The Yankees win, we complain. The Yankees lose, we complain. Somebody crashes planes into a couple of our buildings, we complain. The trains are late on the day somebody crashed planes into our buildings, we complain (yes, I heard it). Complaining is sort of the background noise around here. If I heard something like that at an airshow, I wouldn't assign a lot of significance to it.

August

Mudge · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 1:59 pm

Django wrote:

No, and he shouldn't have said anything like that in "public". That wasn't my point.

Royalty? No, but you ARE there to see them (us) perform. Ever hear of a "green room"? That's the special area for "talent". It's universally accepted that the venue take care of the performers. It's not a new idea.

Perform, yes. Whine like children, no. Perhaps this guy should have found the "green room" and done his whining there.

Yes, I've heard of a "green room". Frequented them many times during my acting career. Not once, during that time, did I walk out on stage and tell the audience that the "venue" was not "taking care" of me.

Mudge the non-whining ex-thespian :shock:

cco23i · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:14 pm

Django wrote:

No, and he shouldn't have said anything like that in "public". That wasn't my point.

Royalty? No, but you ARE there to see them (us) perform. Ever hear of a "green room"? That's the special area for "talent". It's universally accepted that the venue take care of the performers. It's not a new idea.

O.K I agree to take care of performers, BUT, not bend to their every wish! I deal with enough whiners in the Air Force when we deal with the "prima Donnas" known as fighter pilots. As a performer you do it somewhat on a voluntary basis NOT being ordered as we are in the military so I don't feel I or anyone else should have to listen to them whine like little girls about having to stand in line for a little bit. :roll:

Scott

Mudge · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:23 pm

WHOA...seems as though I've smacked a hornets nest with this one. Maybe next time I'll "hesitate" a little longer.
Well.....probably not. :lol:

Mudge the resolute :twisted:

wendovertom · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:24 pm

everyone has made good points I think. From a show organizer point of view (and I have room to learn and improve certainly) it is important to provide a more accessable/semi private area for the performers. I have never been "told" that I need to have this kind of amenity but it makes sense. Wendover even in late september can be hot. It is a good idea for me to provide a quiet place for the pilots to sit and review/eat/use the facilities before and after they fly. I am not perfect at it and I am hoping this year to have a whole hanger for them to use and "get away" for a private moment.

Somewhat off topic but it comes to mind - One of the more "intimate" moments I have witnessed was a F-16 demo pilot walking to the back of the jet and resting head and shoulders in the tail pipe going over the knee board one last time and offering utterances to the most high.

Having said all this I would hope to high heaven that if one of my performers was going to piss and moan that they would do it in that private area and not in front of my guests - why? - they are at my show on my dime and I might reconsider asking them back. Voting with my dollars you might say.

Theres my .02

Tom P.

Dan K · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:41 pm

Mudge wrote:

Mudge the non-whining ex-thespian :shock:

I'm just proud of Mudge coming out of the closet. :mrgreen:

Django · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:03 pm

cco23i wrote:

Django wrote:

No, and he shouldn't have said anything like that in "public". That wasn't my point.

Royalty? No, but you ARE there to see them (us) perform. Ever hear of a "green room"? That's the special area for "talent". It's universally accepted that the venue take care of the performers. It's not a new idea.

O.K I agree to take care of performers, BUT, not bend to their every wish! I deal with enough whiners in the Air Force when we deal with the "prima Donnas" known as fighter pilots. As a performer you do it somewhat on a voluntary basis NOT being ordered as we are in the military so I don't feel I or anyone else should have to listen to them whine like little girls about having to stand in line for a little bit. :roll:

Scott

No, you shouldn't cater to every whim, but there are standard amenities that should be provided. Publicly displaying the lack thereof is certainly unprofessional. I don't think anyone is denying that at this point.

Similar to August's point, I certainly have done multiple shows that cost me money to even walk through the door (although we try really hard to make sure that doesn't happen!). But I still played because it is something that I love to do. It's something that I'm passionate about and like to share with others. And for the record, along the lines of JimH's comment, I would be more than willing to be involved in the flying portion of an airshow. And when I passed out from the heat in the water line, it would probably take a minute to get myself back together, but I would get up and do it all again.

Ever wear the bunny suits and sheepskin B-3 and pants on a 100° tarmac in the middle of August? Yeah it was HOT. And I loved every minute of it.

Chris · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:13 pm

I was at Chino in 2008 I think and it was about 110 degrees. The ramp was even hotter and I can't even imagine what it was like in the planes. I remember John Hinton getting out of the P-40 and his flight suit was drenched. One of the rampers gave him a bottle of water and he jumped right into another plane and flew the next portion of the show. This was common with all the pilots that day as most of the Chino guys fly multiple planes during the show. What I remember and impressed me the most was when Hinton acknowledged a few of the crowd with a quick wave and a thank you with a smile on his face. It would have been very easy for him to blow off those people and complain about the heat but that wasn't the case. Also, don't forget about ALL the volunteers it takes to stage the event. Rampers, marshallers, mechanics , food vendors, no airshow takes place without their dedication. For the few that do complain, so be it. It comes with the territory.

Ken · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:46 pm

The best points so far come from Greenwood, Django, and August. Everyone has a bad day and sometimes forgets that others are within earshot. I'd hope for 3 strikes before someone counted me out.

That's my .02. Where I'm currently deployed, some daytime highs have been 122F.

Ken

krlang · **Posted:** Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:52 pm

Mudge,
Saturday at Geneseo? Did I miss something? Like seeing you there? I am sorry we didnt run into you.
Granted, I was wiped out and way at the back of the line, and you missed the Mimosa's at 9am.

Luckily, the dinner at Geneseo is available to everyone who purchases a ticket, we bought 4 for each night.
I am assuming that the performers also get a ticket which is why that person was there, I could be wrong.
It was warm, and the line is long, and maybe that person is not accustomed to the way it is in Austin's Yard but we enjoy it every time.
We didnt just sweat it out in an airplane, but it was toasty in the sun all day, a cold one of Tim's beers, and a short wait, then we ate.

I serviced the Air conditioning in a Beechjet and a King Air yesterday, gotta keep the pilots cool or they complain in the MX log too.

T33driver · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:46 am

k5083 wrote:

Just a thought on the idea that the pilot's griping is BS because it is an honor to fly the planes and we should tolerate a little discomfort.

Understand that the honoring thing is a personal feeling. Some fly/fix/work with warbirds to honor someone/something, or consider it an honor to do so. Others do not. For plenty of operators they are just nice toys. The sometimes-voiced suggestion that operators "should" feel they are honored/honoring quickly gets tiresome, often sanctimonious.

Look at it from the perspective of an owner who just feels he has a nice toy that people want to see, spends his weekends letting them see it, probably at an economic loss to himself, and sometimes with a good deal of discomfort. I'm not pro-whining, but it makes it a little more understandable than if you assume, wrongly, that everyone is on a mission of honor. Obviously, our comeback to these owners could be, "If it isn't comfortable enough for you, or you aren't enjoying yourself, keep your toy and stay home." But is that really what we want? Seems to me that whatever can be done to make operators happy, within the tight economic constraints of airshows, that increases the number of nice planes on the field is all to the good.

August

August and Django,

Very insightful, balanced responses.

JimH · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:24 am

So choose your Chapstick well...and bring lots of it!
:lol:

jim

Nathan · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:36 pm

Have to give my IMHO,

Everyone complains. Plus the guy could have had a bad day. Do we really have to chew the guy out for that?

Sorry Mudge

Nathan(the forward) :wink:

michaelharadon · **Posted:** Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:38 pm

Dan K wrote:

Mudge wrote:

Mudge the non-whining ex-thespian :shock:

I'm just proud of Mudge coming out of the closet. :mrgreen:

I am too, Dan, but we must not forget that he's still a thespian trapped in a man's body. :lol:

Michael the observant

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