Unknown warbirds in the U.S. - Could they exist?

[Michel Lemieux]

I bet Steve T. and I could think of a large twin-engined WWII era aircraft in storage in Ontario. It has been in private storage ever since it's military retirement in the 1960s, complete with the stenciling and original paint. It will be a star someday on the airshow circuit if it is ever sold.

Mike

And what a beauty is she......

Right in the middle of nowhere.

It would also require a bit of work on the runway to get out however

She is in there:

http://www.catalina.demon.nl/pby/survivors_other.htm

[T J Johansen]

I bet Steve T. and I could think of a large twin-engined WWII era aircraft in storage in Ontario. It has been in private storage ever since it's military retirement in the 1960s, complete with the stenciling and original paint. It will be a star someday on the airshow circuit if it is ever sold.

Mike

And what a beauty is she......

Right in the middle of nowhere.

It would also require a bit of work on the runway to get out however

She is in there:

http://www.catalina.demon.nl/pby/survivors_other.htm

I take it this is the one mentioned in Warbirds Intl. some years back as being owned by the doctor who swings by twice a year to pet his beloved treasure? Wonder which museum was stupid enough not to accept it when offered as a donation!

T J

[mrhenniger]

Wonder which museum was stupid enough not to accept it when offered as a donation!

From what I understand it was never offered as a donation. I believe reality was that the price tag was large and out of reach of most museums.

Mike

[Mike Schneider]

Hi Mike,

If its the one the Chris is talking about it was recovered in the early 80s with out NHC permisssion. I recall that the Caf. Forest Dept. had something to do with it. Let me check with Rob Mears about it or Rob if you read this is this the one that you and I think a certain collector who is rebuilding some other aircraft got.

RER

Rob,

Oh Rob!?

Who, how and where is it now?

Thanks for the info so far.

[John-Curtiss Paul]

Some planes never made it to the civil register...that does not mean that they do not still exhist.

[T J Johansen]

Wonder which museum was stupid enough not to accept it when offered as a donation!

From what I understand it was never offered as a donation. I believe reality was that the price tag was large and out of reach of most museums.

Mike

I just remember from the article that it was said to be donated. I don't know anything more than that.

Some planes never made it to the civil register...that does not mean that they do not still exhist.

And those are the ones that very easily could be kept out of the public eye. Hopefully, when the current owners eventually pass on, the relatives will not just dismiss any given derelict a/c as junk but sell what's left!

T J

[Dan Johnson II]

Chuck Doyle spoke at my son's High School a few years back. My son's ears perked up as he has some of the same warbird interest as I do.

Mr. Doyle told him that he still has a couple of P51s in pieces in storage in a hanger. Needless to say my son ran home and told me

No idea if that's true, but he sure used to have some warbirds considering the A36 and P40 at the USAFM used to be his.

Dan

[B29Gunner]

You guys are right, there certainly are a number of birds out in the abyss we simply don’t know about. A friend of mine actually has one of these birds disassembled, safely tucked away. It’s something that no one here knows about! I wish I could tell you guys about it, but I gave my word that I would keep it quiet. But let me just say that one of these days when this thing finally goes public, you guys will LITERALLY $@&# a brick when you see this thing. There is really nothing else like it out there!

[JBoyle]

You guys are right, there certainly are a number of birds out in the abyss we simply don’t know about. A friend of mine actually has one of these birds disassembled, safely tucked away. It’s something that no one here knows about! I wish I could tell you guys about it, but I gave my word that I would keep it quiet. But let me just say that one of these days when this thing finally goes public, you guys will LITERALLY $@&# a brick when you see this thing. There is really nothing else like it out there!

What's he waiting for? Mustangs to top $3 million?
I used to live in Missouri...so I'm afraid I'll believe it when I see it.
Until then, I'll have to put it into the TIGHAR file of promises....

[HarvardIV]

When I got my T-6, I wanted to keep it very quiet, because people at the airport kept asking about it after seeing come off of the flatbed!

I'll tell you I tried to keep mine quiet, and couldn't do it. I think those guys with rare planes would really want to keep them quiet, and especially the ones who put them in barns or self storage facilities! Even more so, if they are not well off financially. They would be afraid of someone taking advantage of their situation.

[HarvardIV]

Hi Folks:

I've found this on the Surplus Military Yahoo discussion group about Ansons:

Mike Graf wrote:

As we know....
Following WWII there were a number of a/c which the powers above saw no further use for. Some were destroyed, abandoned, ferried, collected at various depot sites to be scrapped or auctioned.
In Canada most of these aircraft were trainer types utilized at a hundred(?) or so small bases scattered across the country for basic flight, nav & bomber training.
As far as I know, with the exception of a few civil aviation type pioneers who had foresight, most a/c were bought up at auction, by farmers.
One aircraft type... the Avro Anson, can still be found today... if you know where to look.
The reason for this may be that they were built in number... approx 11,000 I'm told.
And that it was not the typical prize sought by warbird collectors.
Their type were commonly utilized during the period, and thus availiable after, but with no foreseable future.
Anson a/c were homely. No sleek lines. No performance to be proud of. But at the time... they got the job done.

What I've become aware of over the recent years is what has been restored, using the barest of remains of an a/c.
Today the source of these remains is commonly what is found in a field on a farm.
Some others convinced me to met them at a very small North Dakota town. They were driving from Washington state for this sole purpose.
Tis no South Pacific recovery tale with sharks and bare-breasted natives.... so walk away now if this is what you're hoping for.

On meeting at the local bar we discused strategy in follow-up to this report of many WWII a/c in a field. We decided to go in separate vehicles... East, then North... keeping the bar as a reference point. Actually, I followed them... they had the map.
Damned if we didn't find them... the remains of 5 Avro Ansons.
I've seen other Anson remains but they were just skeletal. These had skin, they had gear, controls, and they had dried-out weathered bits of wood.

Having spent the rest of the day onsite, we regrouped later back at the bar.
Being recognized immediately by the locals as outsiders, we were approached/accepted with caution. Having convinced them we weren't there to take advantage of their women, we were told of more, and of who to talk to.
After buying many a round, this is what some of what we were told...

After the war Canada auctioned off their a/c at various airfields, hundreds at a time.
Some of the locals obtained same, in this case Ansons. Typically their interest being for the cable, hydraulics and wiring... basically anything that could be used on the farm. The rest was burnt, trashed or abandoned after.

Many locals acquired these, but they then had to get them home....
so the wings were sawed off outside the engines, the tail was lifted unto to back of their truck, tied down, and off they went down the highway.

Was also told....
First consider this is small town America(or anywhere) in the days before the Internet, before cable, before TV, before all that keeps us entertained today.
Perhaps I was sitting in the very bar that this idea was developed.
On occasion... they fueled up these wingless a/c... and raced them up and down Main St.
Was told it was a site to be seen, an incredible noise, and they were just pigs on gas.

Unfortunately I know them, and will remember them just as I saw them... abandoned in that field.

Given the chance opportunity they had..... I would have...


I've attached a few pics of this a/c type to give you a reference, of which there were a number of production Marks or versions.
-in service, reclaimed and restored

re photo credits... sourced via Net.... given where known

[Mike Schneider]

If its the one I'm think of it was recoved in the mid 80s while this wasn't a santion recovery by the folks down it Pensacola they are aware that it was recoved. Durning the operation the helo that they were using got caught in a down draft and almost splatter its self all over the side of the mountain.

RER

Ok.. don't care who has it, just would like to know the area in the Sierra's it was recovered from, so I can rule this machine out if my WWII buddy is talking about the same aircraft. Can anyone point me to any info on the recovery itself? Sorry to keep beating on this but we have a chance to make a really cool recovery documentary.

[TimAPNY]

Wasn't the aircraft i question recovered near Yosmite Nation Park? I remember a thread on that before, or maybe it was a different a/c.

[Rob Mears]

Oh Rob!?

Who, how and where is it now?

The Sierra Nevada Mountain Corsair was recovered by a team led by Bob Bishop back around 1991. Before Bishop started the actual recovery, he had to jump through hoops with the US Forestry Service since the wreck was located in a sensitive wildlife area. As part of the agreement, the US Forestry Service was able to provide all of the relevant information and paperwork on the plane. It was well known by that time that the crash was that of an FG-1D, but in the end, the info Bishop received was for an F4U-4 wreck that had apparently crashed in the same general vicinity. That was a goof on the USFS's part though, not Bishop's. They didn't want to push their luck at that point, so they went ahead with what they had. As a result, the actual Bureau Number for the plane is not known. One day I'll scour through all of the FG-1D crash reports to try and match one with the general location of the wreck, but as it is I'm totally loaded up for the next couple or three months.

Once the plane was recovered, Bob Collings bought it and paired it up with his F4U-5NL (124692) restoration project. After it had lent all of the necessary bits and pieces to that project, the remainder of the wreck was purchased by John Silberman as the basis for the infamous "Kissimmee Corsair" project. As we all saw with that restoration, most of the wreckage ended up serving as patterns.

Of course today it's stored at Breckenridge, Texas lending parts to the restoration of the ex-Pardue F4U-4 (97302), after which it is scheduled to be donated to the Vought Heritage Museum as the basis for a restoration to static display.

[Wolverine]

Mr. Friedeman—Is the Corsair still there? What’s the BuNo?

Rob—“if anything or anyone” Even aliens?

B29Gunner—Any Idea When? Hmm…P-66?...P-43?

JBoyle—“I used to live in Missouri...so I'm afraid I'll believe it when I see it.” I’m all to fermiliar with this mentality…