Oshkosh by the numbers

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:16 am

Speedy wrote:

k5083 wrote:

Quote:

How many of the L-17s were real L-17s and not Navions in military paint?

I'd like to know how to tell the difference, if anyone can enlighten.

There were only around 300 L-17's produced for the Army and Air Force. The standard aircraft were equipped with a Continental 185 motor with the wide-mouth 'smile' engine cowl. All L-17's had split-windows on the canopy, and no propeller spinner, with a militarized interior. Oh, and a nice data plate. :-)

Unfortunately, most of the "L-17's" flying around today are just Navions with some psycho-pseudo military scheme painted on it...with engine modifications from a 205 up to a 285 with three blades, tip tanks, one-piece windscreens and canopies. And coming from a family that owned a data-plate, pedigreed L-17 that served in the Army during the Korean conflict, I can only raise my eyebrows at the owners calling them L-17's just because of a crappy paint job with oversized nose art.

The obvious difference that you can see from the outside between some civilian Navions and an L-17 is the fuel door on the upper right side of the fuselage on the civil Navions (and NOT present on an L-17). Not all civil Navions have that door, but if you see one it's a dead giveaway that it's NOT an L-17:

(apologies for using a derelict Navion photo here, but it's the best one I could Google that showed that fuel door in an obvious way):

Civilian Navions wearing military paint also end up having bogus numbers. The semi-authentic painted one at OSH immediately raised a flag in my mind when I looked at the NAV-4- number on the Ryan dataplate under the horizontal stab, and in was nowhere near in the right neighborhood for the 48-XXXX serial number that was painted on the tail.

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:20 am

k5083 wrote:

Speedy wrote:

When was Geraldine there? I didn't see that one.

Early. Gone by Friday I think.

FWIW, I saw the Mustangs on Wed and Thurs and never saw Geraldine.

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:30 am

vlado wrote:

Also, my first time in 25 years that the FAA attended the warbird safety forums.

................lots of quips and quotes for this one..................

First time? Wow.

I'm not sure if that's a good thing or bad. From the small piece of interaction with the FAA that I saw in the Fighter forum, I'd say that's bad.

Bad, NOT because they are 'the enemy'.

Bad, because IMHO the FAA should be much more closely involved with warbird operations for the sake of our own long-term preservation. We've seen time and again that it is misunderstandings on both sides of the fence that cause conflicts between FAA decisions/opinions and warbird owners/operators. Since they're the ones who are making the rules, I think it's all in our best interest to have FAA personnel in the fold when community decisions are made. It serves us all well when they see that warbird owners/operators aren't just a bunch of walter-mitty cowboys out jacking around with expensive toys.

The more they understand us and our motivations and desires, the more likely they are to make rulings that preserve our ability to operate them in the way that we see fit (and is the right balance of safety with freedom).

marine air · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:28 am

The Super Corsair was nice. It's placement was off to the side of the Aeroshell pavilion and it kind of got lost in the crowd. The spinner looks okay when looking at it in person. I would love to see it parked one year in the warbird lineup next to a -4 and -5.

k5083 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:49 am

Randy Haskin wrote:

FWIW, I saw the Mustangs on Wed and Thurs and never saw Geraldine.

According to the timestamps on my pics, it flew Tuesday and Wednesday afternoons with the other warbirds. Gratuitous pic from Tuesday below. I don't have any pics of it after the Wednesday show and don't even know if it landed.

August

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:26 am

That would be why I didn't see her then!

Thanks for the pic.

mlenoch · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:43 am

Geraldine departed for home from the airshow flyby pattern on Wednesday.
VL

Pat Carry · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:15 am

Garbs wrote:

For anyone interested, final Warbird registration numbers were:

Total registered: 341 down from 367 in 2011

Major Types

T-6/SNJ: 71 (including a couple of the Tora Zero replicas)
T-34: 40
T-28: 27
P-51: 23 (Including the A-36)
L-39: 15
Yak-52: 13
CJ-6A: 11
L-17: 10
L-19: 10
Stearman: 8
P-40: 5(!)

Noticeably absent: Spitfires and Sea Furies

Just in case you were wondering...

Just curious, which P-40's were there?

garbs · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:13 am

Won't get a chance to look up N-numbers until Sunday. I'm sure someone else will respond before that. From memory it was:

Rod Lewis' P-40C
Rudy Frasca
Ron Fagen
CAF Tora

Last one escapes me at the moment

Speedy · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:24 am

Pat Carry wrote:

Just curious, which P-40's were there?

Pics...

http://s1159.photobucket.com/albums/p63 ... %20P%2040/

JohnB · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:25 pm

Speedy wrote:

....owners calling them L-17's just because of a crappy paint job with oversized nose art.

I'm pretty liberal when it comes to owner paint schemes, but if they're going to pretend to be something they're not, all I ask is they do it halfway correctly.

Nose art on planes that didn't have it is a pet peeve...too many guys think a warbird (or pretend warbird) isn't a warbird without a naked lady on it.
My worse case example is a Twin Beech painted in 1950s SAC markings with a semi clothed lady on the nose.
Somehow, I don't think Curt LeMay would have allowed that on a SAC aircraft in the 50s.

mlenoch · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:44 pm

JohnB wrote:"Somehow, I don't think Curt LeMay would have allowed that on a SAC aircraft in the 50s."

.....(oh, what the heck).........or green doors on Mustangs!

VL

Randy Haskin · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:46 pm

vlado wrote:

.....(oh, what the heck).........or green doors on Mustangs!

For shame! No golden wrench for you!

Boeing666 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:49 pm

Garbs wrote:

For anyone interested, final Warbird registration numbers were:

Total registered: 341 down from 367 in 2011

Major Types

T-6/SNJ: 71 (including a couple of the Tora Zero replicas)
T-34: 40
T-28: 27
P-51: 23 (Including the A-36)
L-39: 15
Yak-52: 13
CJ-6A: 11
L-17: 10
L-19: 10
Stearman: 8
P-40: 5(!)

Noticeably absent: Spitfires and Sea Furies

Just in case you were wondering...

Wow I didn't miss much - the only thing cool out of that bunch is the P-51 and P-40, I can live without the others - Sun N Fun always has an over abundance of the other types but not the P-51 and P-40.

mustangdriver · **Posted:** Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:03 pm

Boeing 666 that is NOT a complete list of the warbirds that were there.

I thought it was a good year. Nothing crazy over the top, but for me the people also make the trip special.

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Oshkosh by the numbers

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