Model 299 / XB-17, Y1B-17 ...

SaxMan · **Posted:** Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:41 pm

In Dale Smith's autobiography "Screaming Eagle" - he mentions that immediately after Pearl Harbor they would use Y1B-17s for anti-submarine patrol out of Langley, as well as any B-17E that came through before it was sent across the ocean. According to Smith, they wrapped copper coil around the wings of one Y1B-17 to become a flying magnetic anomaly detector, but the plane had to stay down so low to the ocean it really wasn't practical. Would love to see photos of that particular plane with the copper wiring around the wing.

Chris Brame · **Posted:** Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:38 am

Quote:

38-215 Various combat missions Alaskan theater; crashed returning from weather reconnaissance mission, Kiska, 18 July 1942.

38-216 Similar to above; aircraft shot down by Rufe over Kiska, 18 July 1942.

Have the crash sites of these two been investigated for remnants of the aircraft?

daviemax · **Posted:** Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:58 am

Chris Brame wrote:

Quote:

38-215 Various combat missions Alaskan theater; crashed returning from weather reconnaissance mission, Kiska, 18 July 1942.

38-216 Similar to above; aircraft shot down by Rufe over Kiska, 18 July 1942.

Have the crash sites of these two been investigated for remnants of the aircraft?

Unfortunately, I've never seen a reference to these two crash sites in any of my research.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7815

Outstanding research gents. Great information, thx much.

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7815

B-17B

B-17A

Photo states B-17B's at March Field 7 Dec 1941

B-17D

]
B-17B at Esler Field

Photo states Amarillo TX?

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

From the FWIW dept.....

Early this morning about 0130-ish I was watching the Military Channel's Dogfight series. One of the two dogfights featured in the show was a modified B-17. I didn't catch the first couple of minutes to get the exact story but extra guns were added to give it a total of 19. Some of the 50's were converted to duals and another gun was added to the top of the fuselage right in front of the cockpit where the pilots could see it and/or control it. I didn't catch the jest of the mission but this B-17 was by itself for some reason and 17 Japanese aircraft swarmed over it. The air battle lasted over 45 minutes and numerous Japanese planes were shot down. The B-17 was shot up pretty good and one aircrewman was killed. The B-17 safely landed back on an island in the Pacific. The pilot I believe was awarded the CMOH and the rest of the crew were awarded the Distinguished Service Crosses. They were supposed to be the highest awarded aircrew in WWII. If someone has anymore to add or correct the story please do.

mike furline · **Joined:** Wed May 05, 2004 3:45 pm **Posts:** 2635

CoastieJohn wrote:

From the FWIW dept.....

Early this morning about 0130-ish I was watching the Military Channel's Dogfight series. One of the two dogfights featured in the show was a modified B-17. I didn't catch the first couple of minutes to get the exact story but extra guns were added to give it a total of 19. Some of the 50's were converted to duals and another gun was added to the top of the fuselage right in front of the cockpit where the pilots could see it and/or control it. I didn't catch the jest of the mission but this B-17 was by itself for some reason and 17 Japanese aircraft swarmed over it. The air battle lasted over 45 minutes and numerous Japanese planes were shot down. The B-17 was shot up pretty good and one aircrewman was killed. The B-17 safely landed back on an island in the Pacific. The pilot I believe was awarded the CMOH and the rest of the crew were awarded the Distinguished Service Crosses. They were supposed to be the highest awarded aircrew in WWII. If someone has anymore to add or correct the story please do.

This one,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_666

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/b-17/41-2666.html

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7815

And this one,

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7863&hilit=Zeamer

phil65 · **Posted:** Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:57 pm

Like I said in the Possible Warbird Movies thread, they need to make a movie about “OLD 666”.

Phil

Steve Nelson · **Posted:** Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:11 pm

I notice in the above photos the B-17Bs have had the waist blisters replaced with the later flush windows introduced on the C, but retain the blister-style guns in the ventral and radio room positions. I understand that when the D was introduced, most of the remaining Cs still in service were upgraded to D standard. Since there were so few of the early forts, I'm sure they were constantly being modified and updated.

SN

Left Seat · **Joined:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm **Posts:** 151

Regarding: B-17B # 38-216

Quote:

Here is the correct information:

B-17B # 38-216 crashed at Ragged Top Mountain, about 19 miles west of Lovelock, Nevada on 6 February 1941.

I have the Accident Report right here in front of me.

The pilot was Captain R. [Richard] S. Freeman;
Freeman Field, Seymour, Indiana, was named after him.
He was the base commander at Ladd Field, Alaska, at the time of his death.

For a detailed summary of this accident see
Page 2, Volume I
FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS
IN THE UNITED STATES, 1941-1945

-TonyM

Found here:
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=29894&start=15

October 4, 1940, B-17Bs s/n 38-216 and s/n 38-215, were transferred to the Cold Weather Test Detachment at Ladd Field, Fairbanks, Alaska, to determine how the B-17 would perform in cold weather. A few months later, 38-216 was flown back to the continental USA.

On February 6, 1941, while on a flight to Wright Field, Dayton, Ohio, USA, 38-216 was destroyed in a crash at Ragged Top Mountain, 19 miles (31 km) west of Lovelock, Nevada; there were no survivors among the crew of eight."

Captain Jack S Marks was one of the original pilots for 38-215. He and his crew were killed on 17 July 1942, while flying a B-17E, which was shot down by A6M2-N Rufes over Kiska island. The plane fell into the ocean, and no bodies were recovered.

B-17B, s/n 38-215, crashed in heavy fog near Cape Udak on the southwest end of Umnak Island, returning from a weather recon mission to Kiska while being piloted by Captain Marvin E. Walseth on 18 July 1942. All crew perished in the crash, and were buried near Nikolski village.

I believe that people have confused the Marks B-17E and Walseth B-17B crashes since the dates and serial numbers are close together. The fact that Marks was a pilot at one time on 38-215 didn't help either.

By the way, the B-17B at Esler Army Field looks like 38-315 (identified by #1 on tail and fuselage) in its bright orange cold weather test identification colors. That plane got around, Esler is in Louisiana.

Some pictures of 38-215 and 38-216 in Alaska here:
http://www.aerovintage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=531

An interesting read on 38-215's service in Alaska here:
http://freelancesteve.blogspot.com/2009/06/old-seventy-requiem-for-b-17.html

The Marks Report
http://www.oocities.org/tempelhof.geo/marksreport.html

Data from "B-17 FORTRESS MASTER LOG" and http://aviation-safety.net was incorrect for 38-315 & 38-316.

daviemax · **Posted:** Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:33 am

Looks like the source I quoted on the two B-17B "lost" over Kiska was inaccurate. Thanks for the better information.

Larry Kraus · **Posted:** Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:58 pm

I know that these shots have been posted elsewhere on this site before,but it can't hurt to post them again here.They are from a series of color pictures of B-17s and B-18s at March Field.I'm not sure where Mark found the December 1941 date for the black and white version of one of them.

Here is the URL for the Google Life source material:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/cd ... c6258.html

I thought that Mark might have been referring to the 1 December 1941 issue of Life Magazine:

This issue of Life has an interesting article about increasing the Army Air Forces,as well as a number of other articles and ads that are worth checking out,but it isn't the source of the picture in question.

Here's a link to the Life Magazine issue in the 2 page format.You can use the controls at the top of the reader to zoom,turn pages,select from the table of contents and so on....

http://books.google.com/books?id=X04EAA ... &q&f=false

Left Seat · **Joined:** Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:44 pm **Posts:** 151

You can find out what happened to the twelve Y1B-17s and the one Y1B-17A on this WIX thread:

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52227

kennsmithf2g · **Posted:** Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:13 pm

The father of a guy I work with took these.

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