Early SWP B-17's ...

Steve Birdsall · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:05 am

I can answer some of your questions . . .

There were no "Forts assigned to the RAF transferred to the 11th Bomb Group" . . . some aircraft originally intended for Britain ended up in the South Pacific. They had their roundels and fin flashes painted over and replaced by U.S. markings.

The "Hawaiian Air Depot camo" never became "standard", it was a short-lived reaction to the threat of further attacks on Hawaii.

There was no "experimental blue camo". Nobody seems to know exactly how the well-known "Blue Goose" was painted, but it was lying at the bottom of the ocean when those LIFE photos were taken in December 1942.

shrike · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:28 am

AviaS199 wrote:

Anyone know the story on the tracked vehicle? The official name, nickname(s), purpose(s), theaters served in, manufacturer?

It's a Cletrac M2 high speed tractor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_High_Speed_Tractor

CoastieJohn · **Joined:** Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:37 pm **Posts:** 1380

Steve Birdsall wrote:

It's a unique collection for sure. Wonderful stuff.

Almost all the photos were taken on Espiritu Santo late in 1942 and show 11th and 5th Bomb Group B-17Es, almost all from the 98th and 72nd squadrons from what I can see.

Most are standard factory Olive Drab and Neutral Gray but five display what we've come to call the "Hawaiian Air Depot Scheme". I've got an article in the next Aviation History magazine that sheds a bit more light on that subject, but we've still got a long way to go.

I noticed Goonie and De-icer have little Midway stars. Is that is for participating in the Battle of Midway in some fashion?

Steve Birdsall · **Posted:** Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:23 pm

CoastieJohn wrote:

Steve Birdsall wrote:

It's a unique collection for sure. Wonderful stuff.

Almost all the photos were taken on Espiritu Santo late in 1942 and show 11th and 5th Bomb Group B-17Es, almost all from the 98th and 72nd squadrons from what I can see.

Most are standard factory Olive Drab and Neutral Gray but five display what we've come to call the "Hawaiian Air Depot Scheme". I've got an article in the next Aviation History magazine that sheds a bit more light on that subject, but we've still got a long way to go.

I noticed Goonie and De-icer have little Midway stars. Is that is for participating in the Battle of Midway in some fashion?

Yes, the small stars indicate that they played a part in the Battle of Midway in June 1942 . . . at that time 41-2428 "Ole" "Sh'asta" and 41-2525 Madame-X were in the 23rd Bomb Squadron of the 5th Bomb Group, and 41-2523 Goonie was in the 72nd Squadron. You can get dizzy trying to follow the squadron transfers involving the SOPAC B-17Es (and their crews).

I'm unsure of exactly when the planes got those nicknames, but I suspect it was later rather than sooner.

hang the expense · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:27 pm

gemmer wrote:

Nice shots of the experimental blue camo. Painted out red centers on the insignias are always neat.

I was about to post the question if one of those was the blue bird.Thanks

hang the expense · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:35 pm

Steve Birdsall wrote:

I can answer some of your questions . . .

There were no "Forts assigned to the RAF transferred to the 11th Bomb Group" . . . some aircraft originally intended for Britain ended up in the South Pacific. They had their roundels and fin flashes painted over and replaced by U.S. markings.

The "Hawaiian Air Depot camo" never became "standard", it was a short-lived reaction to the threat of further attacks on Hawaii.

There was no "experimental blue camo". Nobody seems to know exactly how the well-known "Blue Goose" was painted, but it was lying at the bottom of the ocean when those LIFE photos were taken in December 1942.

Thanks for that Steve.Sure thought one of those was the BG.

Steve Birdsall · **Posted:** Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:56 pm

If only.

Anyway, I'm not an expert on the subject but I think that Ralph Morse was dealing with the harsh light of the South Seas as best he could. As a result some of the sunlit areas in these photos look very "pale" (as someone put it in a post over at HyperScale).

Mark Allen M · **Joined:** Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:48 pm **Posts:** 7821

Thx kindly everyone for posting good stuff. Especially thx to Steve. Much appreciated.

M

sjalberttx · **Posted:** Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:42 am

Just found this post. My father was a waist gunner in the 5th BG 31st BS at Hickam on Dec 7th and 11th BG 42nd BS in July '42 when he deployed to Espiritu Santo's. Based on my memory of a conversation I had with him at the 1988 11th BG reunion in St Louis I believe that he may have been a member of the crew when Goonie was ditched.

dred · **Joined:** Sat May 05, 2007 11:26 pm **Posts:** 154

Some interesting nose gun installations there. I assume those on the lower starboard side were fixed?

gemmer · **Joined:** Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:54 am **Posts:** 314

dred wrote:

Some interesting nose gun installations there. I assume those on the lower starboard side were fixed?

The ones in the posted pics were flexible, changed from a .30 to a .50 cal. Some 43rd BG Es and Fs did have a fixed gun mounted in a slightly lower position instead of the socked mounted gun.

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Early SWP B-17's ...

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