Collings Foundation B-17G 909 Has Crashed :-( 10/2/2019

[shrike]

How can there be zero time engines? Impossible, they are test run after the overhaul, and then tested on the aircraft....

The article stated "At the time of the aircraft's most recent annual inspection on January 16, three of the four engines had zero hours since major overhaul; the No. 4 engine had 838.2 hours since its last major overhaul...."

I believe you are taking it a bit too literally- it is saying that at the time of the inspection the 3 engines had just been overhauled. The inspection could be done during winter maintenance, before test flights. Could they have been fired up? Sure

Two sentences later it says that the annual inspection, and fitment of 3 overhauled engines, was 268hrs prior.

[Archer]

Going off topic a bit, but during an overhaul several test runs may be carried out. It isn't until after these confirm that the engine is performing in accordance with the specs, that a release to service (or equivalent, can't look it up right now) is signed, at which point the overhaul ends and the service life begins with zero hours on the clock.

[quemerford]

Twenty-one pages of navel gazing and armchair expertry, some of it not very helpful or respectful. Time to shut it down?

[quemerford]

Not bothersome - just pointless. And it wouldn't really be censorship to close down a thread that's long past its sell-by and achieving nothing. Kind of like a conversation with my wife's mother but without the interesting bits. Of which there aren't any.

[sandiego89]

Twenty-one pages of navel gazing and armchair expertry........Time to shut it down?

.....Not bothersome - just pointless......

No not time to shut it down. I'm with wingman that this thread has been quite respectful and obviously has lots of interest with over 20 pages. Yes some of it does not accomplish much (like mine here) but I think the conversations are much like we would have in person with other enthusiasts and friends in person: initial shock and sympathy, trying to figure out what happened (some speculation, hopefully not wild), inevitable questions about the aircraft and operation, thinking out loud, some BS, some useful corrections and explanations, support.....

[Warbird Kid]

Not bothersome - just pointless. And it wouldn't really be censorship to close down a thread that's long past its sell-by and achieving nothing. Kind of like a conversation with my wife's mother but without the interesting bits. Of which there aren't any.

For real though, I don't see anything wrong with this thread. You go back and find the 2011 Reno thread and you'll see a very similar thread. A lot of confusion, shock, and some speculation at first. All because we're humans feeling lost in the moment and looking to figure it out amongst other humans. Eventually the info gets out there, stories are corrected, and we all learn and try to begin to heal together. Nothing wrong with this thread.

[GarryW]

Alright...the thread is pointless guys. Lock it down. Save the 5kb of data that can be spent elsewhere...

Reminds me of comments on my Township's Facebook pages to posts of someone complaining about something...complaining about the original person complaining. The internet is ream after ream of "pointless". If that's not your cup of tea, move along. No one is being disrespectful or, as someone else stated, spouting off with out of far left field theories. In fact, more than anything its bonding a community together...and in this age, we need more of that. Tragedy brings people together...that's the point.

[bdk]

Was #3 going in or out of feather?

[p51]

Alright...the thread is pointless guys.

To you, perhaps, but I'm finding out stuff here that isn't anywhere else online. Several pilots giving info I was unaware of and updates come here faster than anywhere else (if at all)...

[Matt Gunsch]

I think if they pull the domes they will find the blades have broken free of the gears, so it might be impossible to tell if they were feathered before or the blades twisted by damage

[OD/NG]

Alright...the thread is pointless guys.

To you, perhaps, but I'm finding out stuff here that isn't anywhere else online. Several pilots giving info I was unaware of and updates come here faster than anywhere else (if at all)...

I agree with everyone in support of keeping this thread alive. I've read every page of this thread and unless I missed a post, I haven't seen anything disrespectful or negative towards either the B-17 pilots or the Collings foundation. All of us deal with grief in one way or another. Talking about this tragedy on a public forum is one way of processing and coping with this unfortunate accident.

To be honest, this has been one of the most respectful threads I've ever read on WIX after a tragedy. Most times, so-called "armchair aviators" get on these threads and post their opinions based on unjustifiable speculation. I haven't seen evidence of that here. Yes, there has been a bit of speculation, such as the wrong type of gas being used to refill the B-17, etc., but all of it has been presented in a way that is not disrespectful. Based on that preliminary NTSB report, so far, it appears that the wrong type of gas being used on the B-17 was not a factor.

As long as the current tone of this thread remains respectful, as it has so far, I vote that we keep contributing information to this thread for everyone's benefit.

[aerojock]

I am not trying to be disrespectful to anyone involved but a question has been eating at me. I have been hesitant to ask since some might not like it. So coming from a flying and ATC background I was wondering if landing runway 24 or runway 33 might have been a faster return to the airport, since the winds were calm. I have not seen any radar tracking data. Unless I have missed something, the audio I have heard none of the other runways were offered to the pilot and the pilot did not ask for one. Would calm winds make runway 33 too short on roll out. Not looking to anger anyone just looking for info from a more knowledgeable group.

[Scott Rose]

I know this is a controversial topic, all accidents are when it comes to WIX.

Here is my two cents...
We all care about these airplanes and the people that run them. When something happens it is only natural to want to talk to your peers about it.
As long as this is done in a respectful manner then I see no issue with it. If you don't want to participate then don't.

I do want to express an opinion on one repeated argument about whether these aircraft should be flown.
The B-24 was used as an example. There are only two flying. However, in warbird terms, there are not really rare (arguable I know),
there are a dozen examples in existence. What makes Witchcraft and Diamond Lil rare is the fact that they ARE airworthy. Take that away and they
are just two more static display air-frames. Don't get me wrong, they are extremely valuable pieces of history, but one of the things that makes them more so is seeing them in their elements. Aircraft are meant to fly, the experience you get in seeing these aircraft aloft is unequaled. If you get the chance to fly in one then that is the experience of a lifetime. I can create a site that has all the information you could ever want along with thousands of pictures but it will never equal the feeling you get in these aircraft. Along with that you get a feeling for what the original aircrews went through during the war. I was lucky enough to fly a B-25 a few years ago and that changed my whole perception of what the aircrews went through, and I wasn't even being shot at.

Enough rambling from me.

Be courteous, be respectful, or be quiet.

[phil65]

Well said Scott...

https://www.wtnh.com/news/connecticut/a ... explained/

Phil

[whistlingdeath77]

When I was at the Collings foundation over the weekend I ran into another volunteer I have flown with. Do t want to mention who it was etc. he said the other b-17g they have wouldn’t be ready to go until 2021. He was also talking about them flying flying without a b-17 for a while. Keep in mind that this guy is not in the loop of what really happens behind the scenes so take all this with a grain of salt.

I basically said I don’t see them touring without a b-17 as that is probably the most recognized bomber. If the other b-17 actually isn’t ready to go for some reason I can see them leasing a b-17,( Memphis Belle,) for one year. Much like liberty belle did. Again, just a couple guys talking about what if’s and looking forward to the future