CAF B-23: How bad is bad corrosion?

[Blackwing]

The fact is, if you want a B-23 there is one for sale that is near flying, why flame the CAF for doing what they want with their aircraft.

hmmm. I don't recall flaming anyone, just admonishing the facts of what I see in the pictures earlier in this thread. There are weeds inside the (looks like) ailerons under the torn and missing fabric and the rudder is laying in the dirt. So I stated, and will again is it for sale to an interested third party.

As this is also the Warbird Info Exchange, I was enquiring about a possible warbird rebuild. The one stated for sale being an ex-Hughes owned craft in corporate interior is obviously not a candidate for that. Why ruin the pedigree for someone who wants a plane of that distinction?

What do you have sitting behind your hanger?

[b17engineer]

Blackwing,

Unfortunately, I think all of the remaining airframes (with the possible exception of the USAF museum example) have been modified from their former bomber configuration. The plane at the McChord AFB museum isa former University of Washington weather research plane. Mike Bogue's, as seen previously, was owned by Howard Hughes. The one sold in Ephrata Wa. also has an executive interior and the CAF's bird was the same thing. So, inder to build a warbird would mean extensive modifications all Diamond Lil to 'Ol 927.

RICK

[b17engineer]

D'oh!

Thelast sentence should have read, "in order to build". RICK

[rwdfresno]

Blackwing,

I will give you an A for individuality. I have to say you may be the only person I know who would believe that a B-23 being Howard Hughes executive transport is negative. To each his own I suppose but the B-23 has a lot more interest in my opinion as a Warbird for who they shuffled around as opposed to what bombing campaigns the were involved in. If you really are serious about making an offer on the aircraft I suggest contacting the CAF board directly because the general policy with the CAF is basically what Taylor stated, and the only way to get around that is to make your case to the board. Making further comments about the how poorly the aircraft is taken care of etc is unlikely to bare fruit, but that is just my opinion and isn't worth the paper it is written on. Anyway, good luck in your search, you will make some poor ol hulk of aluminum very happy. I wish they all could be!

[airnutz]

Blackwing,

Unfortunately, I think all of the remaining airframes (with the possible exception of the USAF museum example) have been modified from their former bomber configuration.

RICK

Good point Rick...with the possible exception of Kermit's bird. If you look at
JDK's photo you'll notice the sheetmetal on the nose appears to "fill in" a
a greenhouse. Not the Exec nose most of the other machines have.

JDK, were the wings of Kermit's bird nearby? If I forget correctly one of the
Florida Dragons was reduced to a fuselage. Just seeking a clarification...

Another point, IIRC Howard Hughes was responsible for saving most of the
B-23/UC-67's post WW2. He may not have flown them all, but he purchased most of
the survivors for possible use for his airline needs postwar. If I won the Lotto,
I'd love to have the fmr Mike Bogue bird and preserve her as a Hughes Exec bird since she carries her own provenance. I'd grab the CAF bird for my B-23 reconstruction to bomber with a greenhouse nose...she'd be a essentialy be a replica ..considering all the new metal..but she'd be sweet!!! If Kermit's is a more original B-23, that bird would be the core of my intent.

Someone asked, basically, "What color scheme, and what significant duty did
the Dragon perform which could attract a sponsor at ICAS. I guess that would
fall hand-in-hand with an old CAF wives-tale about the CG-4A plans. The
old CAF "green 'n grey" color scheme of a B-23 re-enacting the 1'st CG-4 test
of the USAAF M-80 Air Cargo Glider Snatch Apparatus at Wright Field in 1942 would surely
get everyones attention!!!!

It has been asked quite a few times, but never answered... The B-18 Bolo
was a bomber adaptation built upon DC-2 wings. The B-23 was a modified
B-18 fuse mated to DC-3 wings...it has been said. So, how extensive of a job
would it be to mate the relatively common DC-3 center section and outer
wing panels to resurrect the B-23/C-67 orphans with issues???

Thanks folks!!!..

[JDK]

JDK, were the wings of Kermit's bird nearby? If I forget correctly one of the Florida Dragons was reduced to a fuselage. Just seeking a clarification...

I didn't see them, and I can't recall if it was mentioned on the tour as complete or not.

[Blackwing]

Other than the Lotto thing( I would like that for me as well) I was thinking along the same line as Airnutz.

Although there is a Dragon in original bomber or as close as possible condition now.......It is in the woods near Loon lake. There is enough there for detailed pictures and representative measurements to rebuild the inside to "Ol 927" status. There are other statics (McCord) around to help with externals (tail position and nose) and I have some really detailed pictures of the "floor gun" position. Here is a sample I found on line.

http://www.aahs-online.org/BackIssues/Imagev49n4_3.htm

Gotta love that hat...

Hey, Gary....Interested in another Heavy?

[retroaviation]

That B-23 is such a cool airplane, and I certainly wouldn't mind being a part of a team that puts one together some day, but I'm not sure I want to tackle anymore huge projects for a while. Nice, little projects (like getting Ol' 927 back in the air and working on the CAF P-40 for a while) are more to my liking right now.

Gary

[warbird51]

I was told that the B-23 wreck at Loon Lake was recovered a year ago or so by the Idaho Air Guard. I do not know what happened with the remains.

As to using DC-3 parts like wings and center sections of a CAF rebuild, there are many differences in the structure from the DC-3 to the B-23 that would make this a very costly rework. I think it would be easier to restore what you got than try to adapt DC-3 parts. By the time you rework the DC-3 parts, you'd have more time invested than fixing what you have.

The B-23 is a really neat aircraft to fly and has excellent performance. Every time we landed, the flight crew had a hard time getting the grin's off our faces. We couldn't wait to take her off again.


Wayne Cook, crew chief, B-23 N747M

[airnutz]

JDK, were the wings of Kermit's bird nearby? If I forget correctly one of the Florida Dragons was reduced to a fuselage. Just seeking a clarification...

I didn't see them, and I can't recall if it was mentioned on the tour as complete or not.

Thanks James, more on those birds later..
JW

[airnutz]

I was told that the B-23 wreck at Loon Lake was recovered a year ago or so by the Idaho Air Guard. I do not know what happened with the remains.

As to using DC-3 parts like wings and center sections of a CAF rebuild, there are many differences in the structure from the DC-3 to the B-23 that would make this a very costly rework. I think it would be easier to restore what you got than try to adapt DC-3 parts. By the time you rework the DC-3 parts, you'd have more time invested than fixing what you have.

The B-23 is a really neat aircraft to fly and has excellent performance. Every time we landed, the flight crew had a hard time getting the grin's off our faces. We couldn't wait to take her off again.


Wayne Cook, crew chief, B-23 N747M

Hmmnn...the salvage of 39-052 from Loon Lake may be a bit off schedule...
one way or the other Wayne.. I dug up a websearch of her from 7/13/2006 photo..
www.picturesofcascade.com/large/B-23_Bomber_6192ML.jpg

Thank-you so much for finally answering the question as to the compatibility of the Bolo/ Dragon components match. I suspected that a derivative of a derivative matched from off the shelf parts might not be so clean a conversion as folks chatted-up over the years.

A couple of photos of the B-23 performing the first CG-4A "snatch" at Wright in '42...
www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilots/1stC ... lesDay.jpg

As for Blackwing's idea to save the Loon Lake bird for restoration..you'll find
the Park Service is almost as goofy as the Navy about preserving artifacts in
parks as landmarks as the Navy is about preserving their history underwater....bring a boatload of congressman if you wanna bring 'er out..
JW

[JDK]

A couple of photos of the B-23 performing the first CG-4A "snatch" at Wright in '42...
www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilots/1stC ... lesDay.jpg

Now that's an unbeatable airshow act!

[airnutz]

A couple of photos of the B-23 performing the first CG-4A "snatch" at Wright in '42...
www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilots/1stC ... lesDay.jpg

Now that's an unbeatable airshow act!

IIRC, one year later in '43, the first human "snatch" was executed(nice choice of words..ehh?) The question is, would you be a paying customer.. would you expect to be paid..or would you be a volunteer in a modern day
re-enactment with a grin on your face taking it for the team????

[JDK]

IIRC, one year later in '43, the first human "snatch" was executed(nice choice of words..ehh?) The question is, would you be a paying customer.. would you expect to be paid..or would you be a volunteer in a modern day
re-enactment with a grin on your face taking it for the team????

Easy. Just find one of those girls who didn't make it into the wingwalking team, and say you've got a great new opportunity...

Offering sweeties might help, or get you locked up!

[airnutz]

IIRC, one year later in '43, the first human "snatch" was executed(nice choice of words..ehh?) The question is, would you be a paying customer.. would you expect to be paid..or would you be a volunteer in a modern day
re-enactment with a grin on your face taking it for the team????

Easy. Just find one of those girls who didn't make it into the wingwalking team, and say you've got a great new opportunity...

Offering sweeties might help, or get you locked up!