New Discovery Channel series "Showdown: Air Combat"

[Dudley Henriques]

I personally like any show on tv that is related to aviation, even if it isn't perfectly accurate. A big plus on this one is being able to see inside the plane, and having people who fly them explain the differences.
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Anything the people involved with this project would present will most certainly be accurate.

The only caveat one has to consider to thoroughly enjoy watching a show like this one is that the pilots presenting this show are using actual aircraft that by any stretch of the imagination are considered priceless. Naturally they will be deeply concerned in not "over working" these aircraft.
To present an accurate account of an air to air engagement, the show needs only depict enough depth of fidelity in what they are actually doing with the airplanes to give the viewer enough to visualize what actually happened.
One doesn't have to wrack a priceless WW2 fighter into a gut wrenching maneuver that matches the narrative of what took place to depict the depth of fidelity necessary for the viewer to follow what is happening.

I have no doubt this is exactly what the producers and the pilots flying the planes being used will be doing with this show.
The purpose of a show like this one is to allow people who might never have the opportunity to visualize what these combats were like to get an idea of how it looked and felt to fly these planes into combat.
Considering the caliber of the people involved with this project, I have no doubt at all that the flying will be done in the safest manner possible rather than pushing the airplanes out to totally unnecessary maximum performance.

[TonyM]

The crash of Richard Bong 6 August 1945 (P-80A # 44-85048)

There is a factual error in the Bong episode:

Bong did not maneuver the P-80 to crash in a field between houses as suggested by the program's writers. The official AAF Form No. 14 Aircraft Accident Report indicates that Bong bailed out of the P-80 and was killed when he struck the ground after his parachute fouled on the tail surfaces.

The following is an excerpt from the official AAF Form No. 14 Aircraft Accident Report:

"...[It] is the opinion of the investigating board that the pilot cleared the cockpit shortly after the aircraft began its downward dive, following the ship very close. Evidence of the parachute shroud lines [coming in contact with the] leading edge portion of the tail surfaces and the rip cord being pulled indicated that the parachute fouled on the tail surface."

A detailed summary concerning the crash of Richard Bong on 6 August 1945 can be found on page 1150 of Volume III of FATAL ARMY AIR FORCES AVIATION ACCIDENTS IN THE UNITED STATES, 1941-1945.

Tony Mireles

With all due respect to all who helped put the series together--The portion of the episode dealing with Bong's death is not accurate, at least when compared to official records.

See:
Army Air Forces Aircraft Accident Reports
Call # 46540, August 6, 1945, Accident # 201

TonyM.

[davidbray]

I personally like any show on tv that is related to aviation, even if it isn't perfectly accurate. A big plus on this one is being able to see inside the plane, and having people who fly them explain the differences.
.

Anything the people involved with this project would present will most certainly be accurate.

Sorry, I meant if the flying wasn't totally accurate. Not the information that they were providing.

[Dudley Henriques]

I personally like any show on tv that is related to aviation, even if it isn't perfectly accurate. A big plus on this one is being able to see inside the plane, and having people who fly them explain the differences.
.

Anything the people involved with this project would present will most certainly be accurate.

Sorry, I meant if the flying wasn't totally accurate. Not the information that they were providing.

No sweat David. I understood. I was just expanding the point a bit

[Randy Haskin]

I remember watching that show. It seemed like it ended very abruptly. If I remember correctly, didn't the Air Force request cancellation of one of the episode? There was something going on behind the scenes, and I never knew what happened. What's the real story on the show?

No, there was nothing behind the scenes going on...the ratings were terrible, and CBS pulled the program from the schedule.

The real story on the show is that the director spent an immense amount of time and effort to film the happenings for what was supposed to be a feature movie. The director was a stand-up guy from what I hear (I used to fly with one of the guys featured on the show) and the footage he shot was spectacular.

When funding ran out before the director could actually assemble a movie, he peddled the series to television and "producers" became involved. Unfortunately, the producers turned the program into something it wasn't supposed to be in the editing room. The end result was that the program, seriously, was crap.

[Saville]

When funding ran out before the director could actually assemble a movie, he peddled the series to television and "producers" became involved. Unfortunately, the producers turned the program into something it wasn't supposed to be in the editing room. The end result was that the program, seriously, was crap.

In thinking over the discussion I suspect the same issues (money and editing) would pop up if they tried to do a lot of live (but not high fidelity) demos in the warbirds:

You could film maneuvers from inside the T-6 chase. You could create fancy graphic "ribbons" to illustrate the maneuver. You could show both on split screen and make it all understandable to the viewer.....

But now the cost has gone through the roof; air time would have been spent on what is possibly a low interest, high cost piece; and editing could make it into a mess.

[Saville]

Just got word that there are problems with the Showdown series on the Military Channel. Apparently the production company was grossly over budget, so the network canned them and canceled the 3 shows that had not been completed (2 WW-I episodes and an F-22 show). So now there will only be 7 episodes, 3 of which have already been run.

[warbird1]

Just got word that there are problems with the Showdown series on the Military Channel. Apparently the production company was grossly over budget, so the network canned them and canceled the 3 shows that had not been completed (2 WW-I episodes and an F-22 show). So now there will only be 7 episodes, 3 of which have already been run.

Figures that would happen. It's going to die a painful death just like "Dogfights".

RIP "Dogfights" and "Showdown".

Every aviation show worth a crap gets axed.

[BarfingMonkey]

That really stinks, I just saw an episode and thought it was really good. Are positive it's cancelled? I looked online, but didn't find anything to confirm it.

Just got word that there are problems with the Showdown series on the Military Channel. Apparently the production company was grossly over budget, so the network canned them and canceled the 3 shows that had not been completed (2 WW-I episodes and an F-22 show). So now there will only be 7 episodes, 3 of which have already been run.

[Saville]

That really stinks, I just saw an episode and thought it was really good. Are positive it's cancelled? I looked online, but didn't find anything to confirm it.

Just got word that there are problems with the Showdown series on the Military Channel. Apparently the production company was grossly over budget, so the network canned them and canceled the 3 shows that had not been completed (2 WW-I episodes and an F-22 show). So now there will only be 7 episodes, 3 of which have already been run.

Well I got the word from Bob (Mouse) Shaw (he of Fighter Combat fame) who appears on the shows.

[Jim Beasley]

I heard from Max that it's still going they just had some production delays. Who knows. jb

[Saville]

I heard from Max that it's still going they just had some production delays. Who knows. jb

Hah maybe not even the producers. Guess we'll just have to wait an dsee.

[Django]

I guess I'm a little behind, as I just watched the Wildcat and the P-38 episode. I really enjoyed the segments with Steve Hinton and the walkarounds. I agree on the chase plane mic narration being annoying and the dialogue makes me giggle a little. But would I love to share a beer with any of those guys on the show and talk airplanes.

After Dogfights, anything less in the CGI department will FAIL. The CGI looks like it is 30 years old! They're taking shots of the planes flying around and trying to storyboard out the dogfight. It's HORRIBLE! I realize they don't have the budget for good CGI since they are using real planes, but still...

Dogfights changed the playing field. And I sorely miss it.

[Randy Haskin]

Dogfights changed the playing field. And I sorely miss it.

I don't think Dogfights does anything that an average Flight Sim doesn't also do these days.

[Django]

CGIwise perhaps, but as the entire package (CGI + veteran's interviews and stories) Dogfights has no equal IMO. Which is why I was comparing Showdown to Dogfights (as were others) because it seems to me that the goal of the two shows is the same.