Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:03 pm
The main problem is in the mid to late 70's during all the other FADS, a new god hood of mother hood was created, where mommy has to do everything to make the little brat happy. When I was a kid my mom wasn't going to entertain me constantly, she told me to go outside and play. Inother words teach independance from mommy. It gves the child a sense of trying to use his or her own mind and invent things to entertain themselves with. And yeah we didn't have the influence of internet etc. either.
And what helps the most for doing mechanical things is you either got it or you don't. Most all people that are in such fields as politics and entertainment have pretty much no mechanical apptitude, everybody is not meant to be the same. The first step to the problems with the kids and cough cough adults up to thier 30's is eveything has to be easy for them. Mommy still gives them what they want, never a "NO" do it yourself you over grown baby. And since this won't be changed, the up and commings are going to be as bad or worse than what we see now.
They don't want to have to work, like mom and dad did or do. Its better to live under the parents roof where they are safe from rent payments and bill collectors, just let mommy and daddy pay for it. Any adult child that does that is worthless in my opinion.
And what helps the most for doing mechanical things is you either got it or you don't. Most all people that are in such fields as politics and entertainment have pretty much no mechanical apptitude, everybody is not meant to be the same. The first step to the problems with the kids and cough cough adults up to thier 30's is eveything has to be easy for them. Mommy still gives them what they want, never a "NO" do it yourself you over grown baby. And since this won't be changed, the up and commings are going to be as bad or worse than what we see now.
They don't want to have to work, like mom and dad did or do. Its better to live under the parents roof where they are safe from rent payments and bill collectors, just let mommy and daddy pay for it. Any adult child that does that is worthless in my opinion.
Re: The way to fix the root cause...and help your career!
Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:54 pm
Great topic...I strongly agree with all points so far....here's mind to add how building models helped meet my future career aspirations.
I started building models when I was around 5. This included starting with the Hawk 50 cent kits (my favorites!) all the way to the monster B-52 and Saturn 5 kits of the mid-1970s.
Over my nearly 30 year IT career I always was recognized for being good at abstract reasoning, visualization and getting the big picture. Im pretty this all came about from building models; especially the ability to visually interpret instructional diagrams as well as solve problems.
Although Ive sold my soul to Ebay to buy some of these kits back, the benefits have most certainly outweighted the modest cost and time investment.
I wonder how many kids diagnosed with ADD would have marvelous recoveries if you slid a Revell 1/72 Fokker D-7 kit in front of them and had them successfully build it...
I started building models when I was around 5. This included starting with the Hawk 50 cent kits (my favorites!) all the way to the monster B-52 and Saturn 5 kits of the mid-1970s.
Over my nearly 30 year IT career I always was recognized for being good at abstract reasoning, visualization and getting the big picture. Im pretty this all came about from building models; especially the ability to visually interpret instructional diagrams as well as solve problems.
Although Ive sold my soul to Ebay to buy some of these kits back, the benefits have most certainly outweighted the modest cost and time investment.
I wonder how many kids diagnosed with ADD would have marvelous recoveries if you slid a Revell 1/72 Fokker D-7 kit in front of them and had them successfully build it...
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:15 pm
I remember having 10 or more models hanging from a wire strung from one wall in my bedroom to the opposite wall when I was a kid. Geez, it almost seems like yesterday. Good memories for sure and they never go shot down by flak!
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:37 pm
engguy wrote:They don't want to have to work, like mom and dad did or do. Its better to live under the parents roof where they are safe from rent payments and bill collectors, just let mommy and daddy pay for it. Any adult child that does that is worthless in my opinion.
Thanks for that...
At least that way I could afford $$$ flight training without going into debt. There are good reasons why some of us do it, and that doesn't mean we don't work, are lazy, etc.Ryan
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:01 am
At least that way I could afford $$$ flight training without going into debt. There are good reasons why some of us do it, and that doesn't mean we don't work, are lazy, etc.
Sounds like in your case your family was helping you work toward a goal..that's the way it's supposed to work. I think engguy was talking about those who simply sponge off their parents well into adulthood to avoid having to deal with the real world. I lived at home probably longer than I should have, but even I had my own place by my mid 20s..and my mother wasn't subtle about making it clear it was time for me to strike out on my own.
I enjoyed seeing the pictures of the autographed models. These are indeed the heros and idols whom our kids should be getting autographs from.
This is the only one I have..a Monogram 1/48 P-47 built in 1996. I normally build 1/72, but this was intended as a commision job..the guy never wanted to pay me, so I kept the model. I brought it along to the IPMS National Convention in 2001 where Col. Gabreski was a guest speaker, and he was kind enough to autograph it. He passed away just a few months later, making the model all that more precious to me. I have no idea what it might be worth..I certainaly have no plans to sell it.
SN
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:33 pm
Clucking about "kids today" has been a pastime of old farts from time immemorial, and far be it from me to deny that pleasure to anyone.
Still, I wonder how many of you cluckers have young offspring, or a lot of contact with them.
Now, my oldest is just 6, maybe too young to be a slacker. He took up piano three months ago and is already composing. He's getting good enough at chess that I have to be careful. When I look at him and his friends and my friends' older kids, I see the same thing -- eager, active, curious, industrious young people. A lot like the ones I grew up with except prematurely mature and sophisticated, sometimes upsettingly so. If there's anything that worries me about our children, it's that they may not be allowed a childhood.
I really don't care if my kid ever builds a model. I built models, but I don't think it has all the benefits you guys describe. Or to be more precise, it was an outlet for aptitudes that certain kids have always had, and if they don't use models as an outlet, they'll use something else.
Of course there are many kids who don't get the opportunities to fulfill their potential, whether because both parents must work full time to make ends meet, or they've never met their dad, or they don't live somewhere that's safe and has decent schools, or whatever. That's a tragic waste of human potential in our society that verges on the criminal, but it's probably not all that new, either. Wish we could fix that with model airplanes.
August
Still, I wonder how many of you cluckers have young offspring, or a lot of contact with them.
Now, my oldest is just 6, maybe too young to be a slacker. He took up piano three months ago and is already composing. He's getting good enough at chess that I have to be careful. When I look at him and his friends and my friends' older kids, I see the same thing -- eager, active, curious, industrious young people. A lot like the ones I grew up with except prematurely mature and sophisticated, sometimes upsettingly so. If there's anything that worries me about our children, it's that they may not be allowed a childhood.
I really don't care if my kid ever builds a model. I built models, but I don't think it has all the benefits you guys describe. Or to be more precise, it was an outlet for aptitudes that certain kids have always had, and if they don't use models as an outlet, they'll use something else.
Of course there are many kids who don't get the opportunities to fulfill their potential, whether because both parents must work full time to make ends meet, or they've never met their dad, or they don't live somewhere that's safe and has decent schools, or whatever. That's a tragic waste of human potential in our society that verges on the criminal, but it's probably not all that new, either. Wish we could fix that with model airplanes.
August
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:49 am
good grief model building is expensive!
I just spent close to $20 for a frikin Testor's Military Flat Enamel set. Comes with about 10 flat military colors, sandpaper, glue, brushes and thinner.., my 6 year old son are working on our first model. A Revell 1:48 Spitfire from an old one I had from 1972. He loves it., although he paints a lot worse than I remember I did.., but he just needs to practice. My wife is giving me a hard time about it.,. saying I am turning him into a 'DORK'.., I told her where she could put it!!! and to leave us the "F" alone if she did not like it.., ahhh 13 years of marriage and four kids. dulls the senses..,
About half way done with painting and my son constantly says.., 'this is fun'. He is a sport. Next is I am letting him put the decals on solo.
Then on to the Aurora B-29 circa 1969. He is going to KRAP himself at the size of that kit.
Best of luck to you all!!
Smiz
I just spent close to $20 for a frikin Testor's Military Flat Enamel set. Comes with about 10 flat military colors, sandpaper, glue, brushes and thinner.., my 6 year old son are working on our first model. A Revell 1:48 Spitfire from an old one I had from 1972. He loves it., although he paints a lot worse than I remember I did.., but he just needs to practice. My wife is giving me a hard time about it.,. saying I am turning him into a 'DORK'.., I told her where she could put it!!! and to leave us the "F" alone if she did not like it.., ahhh 13 years of marriage and four kids. dulls the senses..,
About half way done with painting and my son constantly says.., 'this is fun'. He is a sport. Next is I am letting him put the decals on solo.
Then on to the Aurora B-29 circa 1969. He is going to KRAP himself at the size of that kit.
Best of luck to you all!!
Smiz
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:05 am
the330thbg wrote: He loves it., although he paints a lot worse than I remember I did.., but he just needs to practice.
About half way done with painting and my son constantly says.., 'this is fun'. He is a sport. Next is I am letting him put the decals on solo.
Smiz
I humbly reference the first page of this thread, and re-post my first paint job for evidence. I was about your son's age and LOVED every minute of building that model! I will remember that Liberator project (and my cousin's patient help) as one of my favorite childhood memories......
Don't forget to have him take pictures for us!
Scott
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:19 pm
It never ceases to amaze me how out of touch some people in the world are. $15.00 is too much for a small 1/72 scale plastic kit. Even for some kids, my grandsons for instance: their allowance is about three to five bucks a week and they have to give some to the church and save some for a rainy day. Two other things kids need to learn to be responsible citizens.
Now, where are you going to find a kit in the hills of north Georgia? No dime stores in their town and the local drug store does not sell kits as they did when I was young. I bought a Hawk Corsair kit at the local Rexall for .49 cents. I had just got paid a $1.00 for cutting the grass (1962). In this day and age where so many make $80-$100K US a year we sometimes lose sight that there are many people who make considerably less and the children can not afford a $15.00, $20.00, or a $40.00 kit.
At the Southern Museum of Flight they have a kid’s area set up with tables and these soft plastic aircraft and helo kits and the kids could make as many different aircraft as their imagination would allow. My grandsons (5 and 9) spent almost two hours there interacting with other kids and building airplanes. So, the will is there but let us face facts the model kit people are out to make money and that means marketing to big kids. Until the economics of our world change there will be no return to past. It is a Brave New World.
Now, where are you going to find a kit in the hills of north Georgia? No dime stores in their town and the local drug store does not sell kits as they did when I was young. I bought a Hawk Corsair kit at the local Rexall for .49 cents. I had just got paid a $1.00 for cutting the grass (1962). In this day and age where so many make $80-$100K US a year we sometimes lose sight that there are many people who make considerably less and the children can not afford a $15.00, $20.00, or a $40.00 kit.
At the Southern Museum of Flight they have a kid’s area set up with tables and these soft plastic aircraft and helo kits and the kids could make as many different aircraft as their imagination would allow. My grandsons (5 and 9) spent almost two hours there interacting with other kids and building airplanes. So, the will is there but let us face facts the model kit people are out to make money and that means marketing to big kids. Until the economics of our world change there will be no return to past. It is a Brave New World.
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:38 pm
it is a sad new world our childrens futures have been raped by big business and big government the middle class no longer exists our children are being taught no morals no consequences they have no hope of guidance unless we as parents give it to them!! i have 2 young girls 11 and 14 they are well adjustd have manners and respect for theyre elders unfortunatly they mone when i want to take them to the trenton airforce museum but yaa can,t winem all!!!!!!!
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:47 pm
I disagree with the thought that kits are too expensive. Yes, decades ago they could be bought for under $10.00. Of course, min wage was a buck an hour, gas was .30 a gallon and a loaf of bread was .25 cents....
Everything went up, cost of products AND income. I will be the first to admit that income didn't go up as much as what things cost....BUT...how do you value something you don't NEED ( not food or shelter...)? You place a value based on your enjoyment of it...and this thread has proven how enjoyable model-building may be.
On James May's Toy Storys they had an episode where they introduced kids to models, small ones at first. NONE of them had ever seen one, much less built one. They included a part where they took the finished models out and blew them up with firecrackers...ONE lad didn't want to blow up his model....
...in the end, they built a full size Spitfire plastic model as a group. The end result being a group of kids who enjoyed model-building.
In today's world NOBODY says that Guitar Hero is "Too Much", there is no "Too Expensive" for your next 4 or 5 X-box or Playstation games. The fancy iPhone for the kid to play with costs enough to buy a stack of models.
Cost of current kits isn't too much. It's a lack of interest, and that's where those of us who have built kits come in. Kids exposed to and enjoying model building will WANT to build models. I'm thinking a program that points out to parents how much cheaper a stack of models are compared to a new "Fender-endorsed Guitar Hero Controller" is might be along the lines of where to start.
I guess I am learning something in my economics class....
Everything went up, cost of products AND income. I will be the first to admit that income didn't go up as much as what things cost....BUT...how do you value something you don't NEED ( not food or shelter...)? You place a value based on your enjoyment of it...and this thread has proven how enjoyable model-building may be.
On James May's Toy Storys they had an episode where they introduced kids to models, small ones at first. NONE of them had ever seen one, much less built one. They included a part where they took the finished models out and blew them up with firecrackers...ONE lad didn't want to blow up his model....
...in the end, they built a full size Spitfire plastic model as a group. The end result being a group of kids who enjoyed model-building.
In today's world NOBODY says that Guitar Hero is "Too Much", there is no "Too Expensive" for your next 4 or 5 X-box or Playstation games. The fancy iPhone for the kid to play with costs enough to buy a stack of models.
Cost of current kits isn't too much. It's a lack of interest, and that's where those of us who have built kits come in. Kids exposed to and enjoying model building will WANT to build models. I'm thinking a program that points out to parents how much cheaper a stack of models are compared to a new "Fender-endorsed Guitar Hero Controller" is might be along the lines of where to start.
I guess I am learning something in my economics class....
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:10 am
.
I would agree that modelling, the skills of assembly, imagination, finishing and detailing are all important development skills let alone enjoyable passtimes, but we all grew up in far simplier and less technological times than our kids are.
I and my friends fought many WW2 battles in the back yard, inspired by a "John Wayne" movie, where sticks became all manner of weapons, today my children play online in multiplayer "first person" 3-D action games with a realism that our sticks are unable to compete with!.
Similarly we all grew up modelling aircraft that brought to life the stories we heard from our fathers and their generation, todays modern aircraft do not quite inspire the same interests in our childrens generation, but equally there are so much more competing interests.
My four children have all daubled in aircraft modelling, but put their efforts into Warhammer, an intricate level of modelling far beyond my own efforts at 1/72nd, but a modelling hobby that then extends into war gaming, an area my own and my generations aircraft modelling tended not to touch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000
This particular modelling is much more expensive than the prices being quoted above, but it is modelling still the same, and alive and well, just different to that of my generation.
We cant expect tomorrows generation to simply enjoy and undertake the interests and hobbies of our earlier generations - and that is the risk of GA Aviation let alone historic aircraft, but its clear modern generations are just as inspired to take on the hobby of modelling, just not neccessarily modelling of mustangs and spitfires.
regards
Mark Pilkington
I would agree that modelling, the skills of assembly, imagination, finishing and detailing are all important development skills let alone enjoyable passtimes, but we all grew up in far simplier and less technological times than our kids are.
I and my friends fought many WW2 battles in the back yard, inspired by a "John Wayne" movie, where sticks became all manner of weapons, today my children play online in multiplayer "first person" 3-D action games with a realism that our sticks are unable to compete with!.
Similarly we all grew up modelling aircraft that brought to life the stories we heard from our fathers and their generation, todays modern aircraft do not quite inspire the same interests in our childrens generation, but equally there are so much more competing interests.
My four children have all daubled in aircraft modelling, but put their efforts into Warhammer, an intricate level of modelling far beyond my own efforts at 1/72nd, but a modelling hobby that then extends into war gaming, an area my own and my generations aircraft modelling tended not to touch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000
This particular modelling is much more expensive than the prices being quoted above, but it is modelling still the same, and alive and well, just different to that of my generation.
We cant expect tomorrows generation to simply enjoy and undertake the interests and hobbies of our earlier generations - and that is the risk of GA Aviation let alone historic aircraft, but its clear modern generations are just as inspired to take on the hobby of modelling, just not neccessarily modelling of mustangs and spitfires.
regards
Mark Pilkington
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:07 am
Fortunately for my two sons (and two daughters, but they don't wish to build models) their father was a pack rat and has over 40 mint model kits tucked away from his childhood. Some of them I may sell on eBay.., like a 1953 Aurora B-29 MIB, (this one was my older brothers) but I have many from the late 60's and early 70's that I certainly hope to build with them. The smell of the paints, glue and even the cardboard boxes are quite a time machine for me. It is as much a thrill for me as it is to him, although I would never let him know that.
I let him paint away last night.., I cleaned it up a bit after he went to sleep.., more my insistence than his. He was very content at his painting skills.., I should have left it alone.., but he looked at it this morning and was very proud.
The next model he is doing all the painting!!! I just want him to be proud of it as well and am so afraid he will be mad at himself if he tears a decal or botches the paint! Here it is with the top painted and two of the decals on. He picked the paint and I even showed him the boxtop and he said these are how it should be painted..,. We used a small Corgi Spitfire as a guide for the camouflage layout.
We are not quite done.., will put some yellow on the leading edges of the wings like on the model box.., paint the underside a pale green-ish white and apply the rest of the decals.., I am letting him do some of those as well.., I can remember my first model I built with my brother.., an Aurora B-29 and he did almost ALL of the work and it did not bother me., I got to play with it when completed and it is still one of the fondest memories of my childhood as well. Hoping my son will be inspired and it is certainly helping him on patience and detail. Watching him concentrate with the brush is priceless. Again.., it is all a time machine for me.., so I am thrilled beyond belief. Most of raising children is basically living yours all over again.., but hopefully better.., if possible.
As far as cost.., i have to go with the 'everything is relative' theory as well. Minimum wage is over $6 an hour and movies are $12.00. Twenty years ago, minimum wage was $3.25 and movies were $6. Candy was .50 cents and now they are a $1.00 a bar.., of course candy bars are shrinking as is most 'packaged' products but that is a discussion for another thread.., and it is on another thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36218.., hah!
Model's are, in fact, being made for the adult collector in mind.,. because kids just do not build models anymore. A. Too expensive., or B. not interested. most likely more 'B'. Video games are incredible these days and take 30 years off the clock and we all would choose first person WWII video games from EA like 'Battlefield 1942' over building a model ANYDAY of the week!
My sons are going to be busy over the next 6 or so years cleaning out my storage of old models.., I am certainly glad I kept them.., I lost interest in them when I entered into Highschool.., but I am sure glad I put them away.
Thanks all!!!
Best,
Smiz
P.S. and RandolphB.., I love James May's show.., I am a bigger "TOP GEAR" fan if that is possible.,. but James Mays show is very cool and I loved the Spitfire episode and the giant Airfix kit!
I let him paint away last night.., I cleaned it up a bit after he went to sleep.., more my insistence than his. He was very content at his painting skills.., I should have left it alone.., but he looked at it this morning and was very proud.
The next model he is doing all the painting!!! I just want him to be proud of it as well and am so afraid he will be mad at himself if he tears a decal or botches the paint! Here it is with the top painted and two of the decals on. He picked the paint and I even showed him the boxtop and he said these are how it should be painted..,. We used a small Corgi Spitfire as a guide for the camouflage layout.
We are not quite done.., will put some yellow on the leading edges of the wings like on the model box.., paint the underside a pale green-ish white and apply the rest of the decals.., I am letting him do some of those as well.., I can remember my first model I built with my brother.., an Aurora B-29 and he did almost ALL of the work and it did not bother me., I got to play with it when completed and it is still one of the fondest memories of my childhood as well. Hoping my son will be inspired and it is certainly helping him on patience and detail. Watching him concentrate with the brush is priceless. Again.., it is all a time machine for me.., so I am thrilled beyond belief. Most of raising children is basically living yours all over again.., but hopefully better.., if possible.
As far as cost.., i have to go with the 'everything is relative' theory as well. Minimum wage is over $6 an hour and movies are $12.00. Twenty years ago, minimum wage was $3.25 and movies were $6. Candy was .50 cents and now they are a $1.00 a bar.., of course candy bars are shrinking as is most 'packaged' products but that is a discussion for another thread.., and it is on another thread viewtopic.php?f=8&t=36218.., hah!
Model's are, in fact, being made for the adult collector in mind.,. because kids just do not build models anymore. A. Too expensive., or B. not interested. most likely more 'B'. Video games are incredible these days and take 30 years off the clock and we all would choose first person WWII video games from EA like 'Battlefield 1942' over building a model ANYDAY of the week!
My sons are going to be busy over the next 6 or so years cleaning out my storage of old models.., I am certainly glad I kept them.., I lost interest in them when I entered into Highschool.., but I am sure glad I put them away.
Thanks all!!!
Best,
Smiz
P.S. and RandolphB.., I love James May's show.., I am a bigger "TOP GEAR" fan if that is possible.,. but James Mays show is very cool and I loved the Spitfire episode and the giant Airfix kit!
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:53 am
Guitar hero... Pfft. I am my son's guitar hero. 
He tells me to play guitar. Sometimes when I do he'll say, "no, plug it in." I bought him a little guitar and he enjoys it. He's 2 next week. Although now I think he likes drums better. We have been watching the Muppet Show drum battle with Buddy Rich and Animal. He screams "Go Man, Go Man" at the top of his lungs. It's hilarious. For the last 2 weeks, he has to play my ("his") snare drum every day. Mommy really loves that...
Monday night he really surprised me though. He has an Elmo airplane riding toy that he terrorizes our house with. I walked in the door and he had it upside down with his screwdriver. I laughed and asked him what he was doing. He said "Fix my airplane".
To Eric's point, I also grew up on a farm, and sometimes it worries me that my son won't grow up like I did (we live in the city). So I try to expose him to as much of the stuff that makes me tick, just like my folks did, combined with self sufficiency and a good work ethic, also due to my parents. When he's old enough, I hope he will join 4-H too, as I did 9 years and learned alot.
He tells me to play guitar. Sometimes when I do he'll say, "no, plug it in." I bought him a little guitar and he enjoys it. He's 2 next week. Although now I think he likes drums better. We have been watching the Muppet Show drum battle with Buddy Rich and Animal. He screams "Go Man, Go Man" at the top of his lungs. It's hilarious. For the last 2 weeks, he has to play my ("his") snare drum every day. Mommy really loves that... Monday night he really surprised me though. He has an Elmo airplane riding toy that he terrorizes our house with. I walked in the door and he had it upside down with his screwdriver. I laughed and asked him what he was doing. He said "Fix my airplane".
To Eric's point, I also grew up on a farm, and sometimes it worries me that my son won't grow up like I did (we live in the city). So I try to expose him to as much of the stuff that makes me tick, just like my folks did, combined with self sufficiency and a good work ethic, also due to my parents. When he's old enough, I hope he will join 4-H too, as I did 9 years and learned alot.
Re: The way to fix the root cause of all our country's ills....
Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:38 pm
Billtate: "Now, where are you going to find a kit in the hills of north Georgia? "
Try Smoky Mountain Trader in Cleveland, Ga.
Glad so many are enjoying this thread....
Try Smoky Mountain Trader in Cleveland, Ga.
Glad so many are enjoying this thread....