FAA shuts down Collings Foundation tours.....

[Mark Allen M]

The "big picture" for Collings won't be re-applying for a waiver. It'll be when they begin filing for bankruptcy.

[phil65]

I'm pretty sure they make you sign a waiver before you fly not to sue them. Not sure of that would hold up in a court of law.
I think the worst case scenario would be they give up on their flying aircraft and concentrate on their museum.

Phil

[ZRX61]

I'm pretty sure they make you sign a waiver before you fly not to sue them. Not sure of that would hold up in a court of law.
I think the worst case scenario would be they give up on their flying aircraft and concentrate on their museum.

Phil

They aren't worth the paper they're written on, you can't sign away surviving relatives ability to sue.

[Firebird]

To me if the Thunder City Lightening crash didnt wake up Warbird operations then nothing will

Thing is, TC started out OK, with very experienced ex-UK Lightning people in the operation to guide and teach.....

However, its also shows what happens when those people are removed for various reasons, and then the 'we know best and will do it our way' attitude then takes over......not just from a ground crew point of view but from the aircrew point of view as well.

[warbirdfinder]

Matt Gunsch wrote:
There never was a seat for the crew chief, and when I was on Journey, there was no seat as he could not do his job had there been one. Once take-off power was set, it was the crew chief who kept an eye on the engine gauges and guarded the throttles.

For a number of years, Sentimental Journey did have the Crew chef stand on TO and landing.

However, about 20 years ago a retractable seat was designed for the crew chief and obtained FAA approval. I believe it is the only one like it.

The designation was changed from flight engineer to crew chief as they were not licensed F/F's

[lucky52]

Well,I guess standing up behind the pilots was a good thing because he survived.

[warbirdfinder]

Can't argue with that!

[pjpahs]

I’ve been fortunate to be able to take 10 Warbird rides plus about 5 sight seeing in helicopters and Ford trimotors. I had to sign waivers for each. I never really read any of them, signed my name and let’s go. Out of curiosity I googled up waiver of liability for flights and one I found for an outfit in Florida it also ruled you and any relatives could not hold the outfit responsible. You don’t sign ,you don’t fly. I did fly in 909 and Mac was my pilot, great guy. I hope Collings is able to return to normal as long as they can convince the FAA that they can and will improve operations and be under the microscope. I searched the web for Warbird rides and seen if I could find a sample of their waivers, could only find the 1. Nobody, maybe by design, seems to want that to be out there, it might stop people from riding.

[Speedy]

It is rather disheartening that once again, during a time when the collective 'we' should be circling the wagons to help preserve whatever our personal level of investment in warbird and vintage aviation may be, that this news immediately devolves into name-calling, finger-pointing, and size-measuring. This helps no one, but it seems a WIX board trademark.

Were mistakes made? Yes. Is it likely that this is going to have long-lasting impact on any existing or future ride programs? Undoubtedly and unavoidably. But this is also a golden opportunity to, as we practiced all the time in military aviation, to lay all the dirty laundry out for everyone to see, examine it, discuss it, learn lessons from it, and (if the opportunity to reshape and continue) come out with safer living history flight programs.

But to quote a bad guy from an over-quoted science fiction movie, "This bickering is pointless."

[ZRX61]

Well,I guess standing up behind the pilots was a good thing because he survived.

That's assuming he wasn't hauling butt towards the tail when he saw where they were headed... I think if he'd been standing in the usual place when they hit the tanks he'd most likely be among the dead. *If* there was time he may have run back & got behind the bulkhead at the rear of the bomb bay.

[Pat Carry]

Could they park their B-25 in the museum at the NASM in Virginia as loan? The NASM does have a B-25 in their collection but I dont think they have any plans to display it any time soon.

[Lon Moer]

Could they park their B-25 in the museum at the NASM in Virginia as loan? The NASM does have a B-25 in their collection but I dont think they have any plans to display it any time soon.

They have previously loaned the B-25 to the Jimmy Doolittle Air & Space Museum (Travis Air Museum) in Fairfield CA, until 2015. It was based at the Nut Tree CA. airport.

[Pat Carry]

[wolf]

Could they park their B-25 in the museum at the NASM in Virginia as loan? The NASM does have a B-25 in their collection but I dont think they have any plans to display it any time soon.

They have previously loaned the B-25 to the Jimmy Doolittle Air & Space Museum (Travis Air Museum) in Fairfield CA, until 2015. It was based at the Nut Tree CA. airport.

DSCF0066.jpg

The problem with parking a B-25 is they have a nasty problem with corrosion on spar caps. Water gets under the wing fairings and seems to pool in the location that is likely to cause problems. The A-26 also has this problem, but not as much as the B-25

[CoastieJohn]

I was talking to a buddy who has sat on some NTSB boards for warbird mishaps. He was predicting the NTSB report might give the FAA a gig for not maintaining proper oversight of Collings.