Paul Allen B17 For Sale

[phil65]

I must admit with everything we've been through and are going through I would be surprised if someone would still take on an endeavour like this. After 911, the crash of 909, covid 19, the price of insurance, the price and limibility of fuel, the lack of people who know how to fly these aircraft and maintain them and the lack of people left who would really appreciate these aircraft flying. Sure you may get a few people to put down their phones for a few seconds and look to the sky and say "Isn't that the plane Ben Affleck flew when they bombed Pearl Harbor" but who is going to put down a 1,000 plus dollars to fly in one ?
I will be more than happy to see this one put back together and placed on static display. I just hope somebody doesn't buy it and put it in the back of a hangar to be restored someday...

Phil

[bdk]

I must admit with everything we've been through and are going through I would be surprised if someone would still take on an endeavour like this. After 911, the crash of 909, covid 19, the price of insurance, the price and limibility of fuel, the lack of people who know how to fly these aircraft and maintain them and the lack of people left who would really appreciate these aircraft flying.

Ought to finally sell at a price I can afford then!

[JohnB]

....Sure you may get a few people to put down their phones for a few seconds and look to the sky and say "Isn't that the plane Ben Affleck flew when they bombed Pearl Harbor" but who is going to put down a 1,000 plus dollars to fly in one ?

I think you're far too pessimistic, but I probably would have agreed with you.
Volunteering at a museum has given me some renewed hope for the hobby.
You'd be surprised at the interest a lot of people have for aviation history and buying rides. While most rides are bought by older people (including some I would call "non-traditional" warbird fans) because they have the money, I'm impressed with the number of families that visit.

[wendovertom]

....Sure you may get a few people to put down their phones for a few seconds and look to the sky and say "Isn't that the plane Ben Affleck flew when they bombed Pearl Harbor" but who is going to put down a 1,000 plus dollars to fly in one ?

I think you're far too pessimistic, but I probably would have agreed with you.
Volunteering at a museum has given me some renewed hope for the hobby.
You'd be surprised at the interest a lot of people have for aviation history and buying rides. While most rides are bought by older people (including some I would call "non-traditional" warbird fans) because they have the money, I'm impressed with the number of families that visit.

Agreed - Here in Wendover we only have two aircraft (C-54 and F-86L) and A MOVIE PROP (Con-Air C-123) none are flying but we have a lot of families who come and go "gaga" over the history here. There will always be those with a passing interest - a-la "the plane the movie star flew" but many many more have an interest and want to learn more and get an accurate picture of the era and planes. I just wish our museum was in a postion to pick up a FW-190 or the B-17 in static or flying condition. We have a hangar big enough for a B-29 to put them in and take good care of them! Oh and if you know where we could get a B-29. . . .

Tom P.

Tom P.

[bdk]

Americans still seem to have interest in events that occurred during the US Civil War and that was over 150 years ago. I have a number of friends that used to dig at the battlefields looking for shells and bullets. A friend of mine has a surgeons kit that one of his relatives used. WW1 seems to not be as popular of a historical topic in the US. I know that in other countries that were geographically close there is still interest, not to mention the efforts of Peter Jackson in New Zealand. My son is 14 and I'm glad I was able to introduce him to some WW2 veterans. While he isn't that interested at this time, it will be a great memory for him and he will be able to tell his kids about it. I still have a strong memory of meeting Jesse Owens at the Chicago Auto Show when I was a kid so I suspect the WW2 veterans he's met will have a similar impact on him.

I think you're far too pessimistic, but I probably would have agreed with you.
Volunteering at a museum has given me some renewed hope for the hobby.
You'd be surprised at the interest a lot of people have for aviation history and buying rides. While most rides are bought by older people (including some I would call "non-traditional" warbird fans) because they have the money, I'm impressed with the number of families that visit.

[JimH]

For what its worth. Paul Allen gave us some of the most beautiful restorations on the planet...no expense spared, and in a timely fashion. Given all the behind the scenes issues, airplanes got done. The projects, and eventually the flyers, will hopefully go to owners that share his passion. Over the last decade he assembled a team of people that truly appreciated what they had in front of them. I feel for them most of all. It really is a labor of love. Good mechanics are getting few and far between, I fully agree with that, ask me how I know. The industry on the whole is in a really weird spot. There are currently more restorations or new builds underway than just about any time since the war. The economy and the state of the world is hard to summerize...I'm hoping that this isn't the brightest spot in the life of the bulb...if that makes sense. Collections will always shift around.

One thing I learned from being on tour...we gave 1000's of rides to 10s of thousands of people. 90% were not warbird people, at all, or airplane people. They had a tie to the airplanes either through a relative, an old movie, or a neighbor. The overall interest in rides, and the money, is there...but not from people you'd call warbird enthusiasts. The Mustang is probably the only exception, it has a specific audience that is vast.

During our tour visits to Paul Allen's place it was scheduled during an event, either tanks or airplanes or both. It was the same demographic as the tour, much like an airshow crowd. When I lived in Seattle I'd visit often, and more often than not, there were less than an handful of people walking around during non event days. People like a show...they don't like looking at airplanes sitting in hangars. Kermit is prime example of this, his attendance spiked when he flew something, otherwise he was/is out of pocket on the expenses. ok...venting over

Jim

[Mark Allen M]

For what its worth. ok...venting over

Jim

A lot of "worth" in your post. Venting facts all good with me.

I've also been to the FHC several times over the recent years and felt I had the place all to myself (unfortunately). I got a private tour of the Stuka & a few others as well which was unreal to say the least. Really amazing we had some time to experience a man's wealth and vision going to a passion many of us have. If Paul were 20 years younger there's no question we may have seen some truly spectacular rare warplanes restored and airborne.

One of the most tragic days learning of Paul's passing.

[wendovertom]

. . . One thing I learned from being on tour...we gave 1000's of rides to 10s of thousands of people. 90% were not warbird people, at all, or airplane people. They had a tie to the airplanes either through a relative, an old movie, or a neighbor. The overall interest in rides, and the money, is there...but not from people you'd call warbird enthusiasts. The Mustang is probably the only exception, it has a specific audience that is vast.

During our tour visits to Paul Allen's place it was scheduled during an event, either tanks or airplanes or both. It was the same demographic as the tour, much like an airshow crowd. When I lived in Seattle I'd visit often, and more often than not, there were less than an handful of people walking around during non event days. People like a show...they don't like looking at airplanes sitting in hangars. Kermit is prime example of this, his attendance spiked when he flew something, otherwise he was/is out of pocket on the expenses. ok...venting over

Jim

Jim is right - most "average joe" folks don't love seeing planes in a hangar. I know that this is getting off topic - BUT - here in Wendover we have found that in order to bring people out you HAVE to offer something unique. It is our desire to offer a sort of a "Colonial Williamsburg" type living museum experience for our visitors. No doubt at the moment that is on the horizon but when you can take part, get your hands dirty so to speak it is a whole different expereince for young and old alike. Flight programs are huge for this very reason - its not a "painted plane" in a hangar - its a living breathing thing and people LOVE IT. People LOVE being able to ride in our WWII jeep for a tour, they love being able to climb up in the C-54 and put themselves in, "that place", in thier minds.

My .02

Tom P.

[Triplane102]

oops !

Last edited by Triplane102 on Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Pat Carry]

I wonder how long it will be until the P-38 project goes on the market

[Mike]

I wonder how long it will be until the P-38 project goes on the market

Which one? The ex-CAF Scatterbrain Kid II, or the one with combat history (Jandina III)?

Or are they now one and the same?

[marine air]

I talked with a high ranking CAF member that told me he heard that they don't seem to be selling anything from the primary collection. They do have a secondary collection and lots of aircraft in storage. Some of those seem to be for sale. I think it's okay for a collection to make adjustments from time to time. Who wants to see the B-17E stay in storage for another 50 years?

[menards]

Who wants to see the B-17E stay in storage for another 50 years?

This is a debatable question. There have been airframes that have sat in long term storage, only to come out and be needlessly destroyed soon after.

[bdk]

Some may remember that at its inception the Paul Allen collection was very hush-hush before the museum opened. I wouldn't expect that to change with respect to future plans. It would make sense to get rid of some of the excess at this point, the aircraft that aren't particularly rare or interesting and are a long ways off from flying. Better they move along to someone who will more appreciate and finish them. I can't imagine that one of Paul Allen's passions would not have been provided for in some fashion.

[Tony C]

I was under the impression that Paul Allens' family had decided to dispose of the entire collection, has this changed?