Warbird Information Exchange

I was thinking Connie Edwards, but also maybe Junior Burchinal?[/quote]

these are the two that crossed my mind as well...leaning Burchinal though
Ya, Connie would have just shot them!!!










Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:08 pm[/quote]

It's been dying since long before any of us were alive. I have a magazine from the 1920s which decried how people were climbing all over civil war cannon in a museum, which were behind ropes!
I don't get how people can't see that people are people and always have been. The problems we're reading here aren't new. Why do you think that art museums have had guards near famous paintings since before the days of firearms? It isn't just theft they've been worried about!

_________________
Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

Concur....I was visiting the museum over at Warner Robins, a Dad was standing behind his son as the kid was climbing on the side of a de Havilland Beaver on display. I walked over to the Dad and told him..."ya know, this plane is a museum dis-play, its not For-play (I said foreplay I know), so kindly remove your child from that airframe. I stood there right next to the kid so he got the message. He was a little pissed and said "he's just a child" I said, "you are the Father; an adult and know better...teach him" he scurried off to the wife....
At PNAS, I saw a kid pushing the elevator of a jet (I think it was the T-33) up and down, no one around, so in a deep voice I said "Leave that plane alone" he ran off to mommy..... no training what-so-ever anymore....

_________________
Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

Best things I ever saw in a museum?

1) The Good General at the NMUSAF kick a lady out who was offended at the B-24's name and demanded to have it changed to Strawberry Gal

2) My friend Clair explain to a kid that was thumping on the hull of the PBY that "If you hit that airplane one more time, I am going to hit you so hard, you will go back to when the US Navy was still flying them

3) Clair explaining to that kid's father that if he didn't correct the child's behavior that the father would be next on the list.

_________________
Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Director

I agree, it's about respect. It's not a museum story, but it was related to me that back in the early '70's Dave Zeuschel had N332 at an airshow. He came back from getting something to eat and found a father and son standing on the wing of the Mustang. In typical Dave Z fashion he politely inquired as to what the hell they were doing on his airplane and the man replied that he couldn't see and figured the view would be better up there. It went back and forth with Dave being his usual polite self and finally invited the two to get down off of his airplane.

But our hero wasn't done yet...no, he kept an eye on the two intrepid airshow watchers, and when the show was over, followed them back to the parking area at a safe distance. And once they got in their car and were stuck in the traffic leaving the show, Big Z walked over, climbed up on the hood and then on the roof of the car and just stood there. The man got quite upset and asked Dave what the hell he was doing, to which Dave just replied that he couldn't see either and just wanted to get a better view.

Not sure how true it is, but I could certainly see Dave doing something like that with some flare and panache....then giving the guy a four-letter laced sermon in front of his kid.

_________________
Offer me solutions, offer me alternatives, and I decline......

I'd give that a Two Thumbs up

_________________
Kind Regards,
Gary Lewis
J.A.F.O.

How do you guys deal with groups of really young children? I know that they are very difficult to control, but at the same time I do feel like they get some sort of appreciation out of being there.

I was at a conference up at NMUSAF a few years ago, and one of the two sessions I attended was given by the head of the Intrepid museum. The talk was on protecting aircraft stored outside, but somehow the topic of dealing with visitors was brought up. The speaker said that on the Intrepid they have one aircraft - an old helicopter IIRC - that is their "sacrificial lamb". They are willing to let basically anyone screw around with it and break whatever they want. They have a stock of button, switches, knobs and anything else that is easily breakable so that they can just replace it after the people leave. (Another one of the attendees noted how he once found a homeless man sleeping in one of their aircraft!)

We had a group of Cub Scouts in the museum other day, lots'a fun was had...

The general plan was every docent pick an aircraft and stand with it. That can work for museums our size but if you get much bigger it's not possible.
Out of all the vehicles at the museum the kids were most enamored with...the aircraft tug! We let them sit in it as long as they didn't touch any of the buttons or levers. (Hey, it's still a working tug after all. We use it to haul around our B-25.) Even with me standing right there with always at least one of the parents around it was still difficult to keep them under control.

To end on a lighter note, at one point while the Cub Scouts were there, our museum president took his personal aircraft up for a test flight. While he was running up the engines on the apron outside the hangar I opened the door a crack and while making sure that none of them went through, let some of the kids have a peak out to see. There were some parents chaperoning there as well, and for them I noted that the man in the plane outside was "our president", [obviously] referring to the fact that he was the president of the museum. I kid you not, one of the Scouts asked: "Is that Mitt Romney in there?"

I know it's mildly politics related, please don't kill me.

_________________
Tri-State Warbird Museum Collections Manager & Museum Attendant

Warbird Philosophy Webmaster

At VFM, we have a USAF surplus T-37 cockpit trainer. It is very complete and original. We let the kids climb in and have their parents take their picture. If they want to know what "all of that stuff is", one of our tour guides will explain things to them. It works really well! We're in the process of fixing up the complete cockpit and nose section from a Convair 640 which will be available for the kids to climb in and tinker with. It's really big!

As for keeping the kiddos off of the "real" aircraft and out of the displays, before most of our guides begin a tour, we just round everyone up and give them a quick safety and behaviour briefing, and surprisingly enough, that seems to work quite well. The main problem I see is the kids running inside the hangar. A quick but gentle admonishment takes care of that most of the time. The parents generally do a good job of keeping the kids in check, at least that's what I've seen.

_________________
Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

Ask anyone who displays historical military vehicles or weapons at airshows. They'll all tell you similar stories.
I did exactly this at Armed Forces Day at Fort Lewis around 2000 or 2001. A family was siting in my WW2 Jeep, having removed all my display stuff out of it, so they could all have a place to sit down off the grass! My M-1 rifle and M-1919 MG were laying directly on the wet grass from when they'd probably been tossed there! I called the MP's over had to have them forcibly removed when they refused to get out (they declared my personal Jeep as 'government property,' so therefore I didn't have any more right to say what happened to it than they did). The MP asked me as they walked off (with serious scowls on the father's face), "Sir, I originally thought you were playing a practical joke on me when you asked us to come over. I'm sorry I doubted you. I can't believe you folks have to put with stuff like this when you display your WW2 stuff." I explained that stuff like this happens to us and airplane owners at displays often at events like that. About that time, the family walked by going back to their car. The father made a comment so rude I won't post it here. The MP was about to get in that guy's face when I told the MP not to worry about it. But I followed them and wound up sitting on the hood of their car. The father started yelling at me and about that time, the MP came up and told him (while gesturing to me), "Sir, if you say one more thing, I'm going to allow this gentlemen to ask me to file a report for all his WW2 stuff you might have damaged." Even a jerk the size of that father knew not to argue with someone we all knew had live ammo in his pistol! The MP read him the riot act, stating, "I don't know anything about history, but even I know we stopped using WW2 Jeeps long before I was born!"
I gave that MP a hearty handshake and my thanks afterward, as it would surely have gotten ugly without him...
Oh, and he and his MP pals got to take all the photos they wanted sitting in my Jeep, because they asked!

_________________
Life member, 91st BG Memorial Association
Owner, 1944 Willys MB #366014
Former REMF (US Army, O3)

I'll admit right up front that the following post will be a bit off-topic, but not too far off. It is intended to show the general ignorance of the show-going public at large. After typing this, I realize that it's a bit long. Sorry... (blushes)

Many years ago, I had my '72 Ford Mustang convertible on display at an indoor show at the Tarrant County Convention Center in downtown Fort Worth. This was a big show (the kind that awards 5 and 6 foot trophies) and I had my full-blown national-level indoor display set up, with carpet, stanchions and chains, signage, trophies, literature, and so forth. It was a BIG DEAL to those of us who spent a LOT of time getting ready for the show.

About noon on Saturday, Cindy and I left the show hall to go get lunch at a local restaurant up the street, and then we dropped into the CFA cat show that was going on in the other half of the convention center. We were gone for probably 1-1/2 hours. When we got back to the car show and walked up to my display, there were FOUR people sitting in my car... a father, mother, and two kids in the "under 10 years old" group! They had climbed inside the stanchions and chains, and they were sitting in my fully restored show car! The one with the WHITE interior! The white interior that has won several national-level Best Interior awards! The white interior that I had spent HOURS cleaning until it gleamed! Needless to say, I was "just a bit perturbed". (let's keep it G-rated)

When I asked the people (POLITELY at this point) to please get out of the car, the father asked, "Why? Is it yours?" HUH?!?!?! When I told him that it was mine and that the public were not allowed inside the displays, the guy asked, "Aren't all of these cars for sale?" I couldn't believe it! I was so shocked that I could barely speak. I told him that they were NOT for sale, and that he needed to get out. Then, he looked me right in the eye and refused to do so! I looked around, and saw that the kids were in the back seat punching at the power window buttons, the wife had the glove box open and was rooting around in there, and the husband was trying to figure out why the shifter wouldn't move (it locks when the steering column is locked). At that point, all pretenses of being polite were vaporized. I immediately started yelling for SECURITY, and the two Fort Worth police officers who were working the show came a-running. They told the people to get out of the car, and the father refused again! Can you believe it? I couldn't! When the one officer got out his handcuffs and ordered the father out of the car, it became clear that the officer meant business, and suddenly the whole family became VERY polite and VERY apologetic. The officers "escorted" the family straight out the front door, to the cheers of the small crowd of car show entrants and staff who had gathered. I wanted the father arrested, but the policeman told me there was really no crime to charge him with. Rats!

Fortunately for me, the people didn't do any damage to the car, and they didn't dirty the interior. The head judge offered me some extra time to re-detail the interior if it needed it, but fortunately it was fine. They did mess up some of the display (including a footprint on one of my original documents, which is now in a protective sleeve).

Yes, I did win my class (that car pretty much always won).

Moral of the story: the show-going public are very often a bunch of morons, and they truly believe that their admission fee entitles them to do as they durn-well please. I know in some other thread here on WIX I told about the time I caught some idiot trying to climb up on top of the B-17 through the radio compartment hatch...

By the way, several of my show cars have suffered damage at shows because of the public, but that's a story to be shared over a cold beer in person.

_________________
Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

From the Military Aviation Museum in Va Beach...(Soon to be the new home of Mosquito KA-114 Yahoo!!)

One of the employees of the museum is an awesome, yet crusty (is there another kind?) retired US Navy Master Chief Petty Officer, who upon seeing a visitor climbing on the wing of the P-40, asked - nicely - said visitor to kindly "deplane" from the aircraft. Upon receiving some smart a$$ noise from the visitor, the Master Chief took out his cellphone and began to dial. The smart-a$$ visitor said, "What are you, doing, calling the cops?" The Master Chief replied, "No, a$$hole, I'm calling an ambulance for you if you don't get your a$$ off that freakin' airplane!!"

Doncha just love visitors like that? I know I do!

_________________
"Thou shalt maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground reach up and smite thee."

I've caught more than a few kids climbing on my 1914 Stutz Bearcat replica (for those of you who don't know what one looks like, it's about as open as a Jeep).
I even found a couple of 10-14 year old boys trying to steal my brass tire vale stem covers..they thought they looked like rifle shell casings. I've had parents tell their kids to squeeze the blub horn....

If I'm at a show and someone asks to sit in it, I'll usually let them (providing their shoes won't hurt the floor coverings).

I've had people offer me thye chance to sit in $1 million dollar cars, so I try to pass it forward since it helps build interest in old cars, and I have friends who open their aircraft to visitors...but you'd think people would use some common sense.

_________________
Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.

What boils my piss is people who think they can just sit on my motorcycle when its parked on the street. I'm a LOT calmer about it now than I used to be. The last time it happened I yelled at the guy from the restuarant patio where I was eating. He ignored me.... As the door to the street was the other end of the patio I went out through the closest window & was running straight at him. THAT got his attention.


When I was younger, living in the London & a bit more reactionary it was a bit different.
I lived on the 15th floor of a tower block. Looked over the balcony one day & see some guy sat on my bike.. Yelled at him, he looked around, but not up, yelled some more, he ignored me. Grabbed the air rifle & shot at him. Hit the railing the bike was chained to, he flinched, I yelled some more. He STILL sat there... 2nd shot hit the dang gastank, more yelling..... he still ignored me. 3rd shot nailed him. He went running off

_________________
Those who possess real knowledge are rare.

Those who can set that knowledge into motion in the physical world are rarer still.

The few who possess real knowledge and can set it into motion of their own hands are the rarest of all.

After reading all these pages, I have no idea if that person had permission to get on the plane so I won't make assumptions. I 'll let others do that.

With that said.......from my perspective I find the outside and inside of planes interesting. I suspect most others do too. It's easy enough to see the outside but often not so easy to see the inside (cockpit area) of warbirds, which is likely a big attractant. Soooo.......it would seem to make sense to me to have some type of (people safe) walkway or check stand that goes up to the cockpit so that visitors can get a look inside too, take pics, etc. Seems like if you can't see the cockpit, you're missing half of the "good stuff" on a warbird. The walkway and checkstand can be moveable of course and put up and removed at anytime. That should help remove the temptation of (most) wayward folks to climb up the aircraft for a peek inside. Just a thought....

Not a bad idea to allow visitors to see inside the aircraft cockpit, but that still doesn't answer the basic question. What in god's name allows people to think that they have a right to anothers property whether public or private as their own.