Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:09 pm
I bumped into Dan the other week - nice guy who is as bemused about these goings on as we are.
Sun Dec 23, 2007 4:27 pm
He may be a "Retired Corporal" due to medical reasons...
I Myself am a "Retired" USAF Sergeant & only spent 4 years in there.
They retired Me for medical reasons, just like R. Lee Ermey ...
Digger
I Myself am a "Retired" USAF Sergeant & only spent 4 years in there.
They retired Me for medical reasons, just like R. Lee Ermey ...
Digger
Watch what you're saying
Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:00 pm
I don't know if anybody who is making disparaging remarks about "corporals" was ever a corporal, but the remarks are irksome and misguided. A good corporal leading a fire team, or a litter crew, or a gun section, or any other bit of important work, is worth more than any other rank up to and including General any day of the week. Just ask the guys that are led by a corporal. Leadership is not rated by how big your paycheck is or how many people you lead, just by how well you lead.
Re: Watch what you're saying
Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:06 pm
Forgotten Field wrote:I don't know if anybody who is making disparaging remarks about "corporals" was ever a corporal, but the remarks are irksome and misguided. A good corporal leading a fire team, or a litter crew, or a gun section, or any other bit of important work, is worth more than any other rank up to and including General any day of the week. Just ask the guys that are led by a corporal. Leadership is not rated by how big your paycheck is or how many people you lead, just by how well you lead.
Well said.
Re: Watch what you're saying
Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:57 am
Forgotten Field wrote:I don't know if anybody who is making disparaging remarks about "corporals" was ever a corporal, but the remarks are irksome and misguided. A good corporal leading a fire team, or a litter crew, or a gun section, or any other bit of important work, is worth more than any other rank up to and including General any day of the week. Just ask the guys that are led by a corporal. Leadership is not rated by how big your paycheck is or how many people you lead, just by how well you lead.
Okay, since I'm the one who started this, let me explain.
It has NOTHING to do with the rank of Corporal. Or with being an enlisted man.
My "retired" comment simply had to do with the fact that the poster referred to his "wonderful brother, Corporal Daniel Warren" and then later said "he is a former Marine".
The only people who use military ranks in association with their name are either on active duty or retired. According to military custom, personnel who served but left before retirement are not entitled to use the rank in association with their name.
I was actually mocking the idea of a former member of the military continuing to use their rank, or even that person's brother referring to him that way. If Daniel Warren were medically retired, then his brother would have said, "he is a retired Marine"...but he did not.
The rank could have been Captain or Staff Sergeant for all I care...the point had nothing to do with the rank, and everything to do with the military custom.
Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:24 am
Wow!
There's a lot to cover here, and so much I'd LIKE to say about the whole affair and what a crazy, wild ride this has been the last few weeks.
We're getting a little closer to resolution. I say "we" as there are multiple individuals involved here and the case itself is being sorted out by the "professionals." I had a few calls last week from the guys and gals who are the true arbitrators in this event, and they've got a good overall picture of what happened and who did what to whom, along with the when and why. Old 'Pooner had been basically told to put a sock into the old pie hole for awhile and let the folks in charge do their job. Essentially, shut up and get out of the way. And that's what I've done. Note to self... socks taste yucky....
So far, I can share this much and give ya'll an update....
1) When you buy anything, especially aviation related goodies, man, get a good receipt. Keep a good filing system. And keep that stuff forever. My "hoarder mentality" over the years fortunately trickled down to my paperwork and files, and for an easily distracted parts junkie, well, let's just say that's a good thing!
2) The individual here on this site who ended up with the cockpit is a true gentleman, scholar, and certainly appears to be a man of his word. He's got that Marine code of honor through and through, having made every effort to call all parties involved for resolution. There's so much still going on with this situation beneath the surface, and I know we're both looking forward to putting this both behind us. I'm hoping that in the next week or so this'll have wrapped up to a point where I can post some photos and tell the crazy story raw end un-edited. As it is right now, I still have a few loose ends to wrap up. And this sock in my pie hole really does taste awful!
3) There's a wonderful line in that old John Ford western epic "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance." Upon hearing the true accounts of a long and involved personal story, a group of newspapermen is told, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." In the end, the true facts do come out, but getting to that point is sometimes convoluted and arduous. There are those along the way who wish to find issue, pick a fight, or simply try to re-write history.
Stay tuned. And let's all find a little something positive to say, especially about a particular Marine. He's got some powerful mojo or something going on there and I need to tap into that energy source. How exactly can you say anything bad about a guy who wants to preserve history and believes in it so strongly he's able to put a plan in motion in a few short days, and ultimately convinces his wife that his new acquisition is going to end up as a center piece in the family backyard?
More to follow, WIXers. MTF..... and Merry Christmas!
There's a lot to cover here, and so much I'd LIKE to say about the whole affair and what a crazy, wild ride this has been the last few weeks.
We're getting a little closer to resolution. I say "we" as there are multiple individuals involved here and the case itself is being sorted out by the "professionals." I had a few calls last week from the guys and gals who are the true arbitrators in this event, and they've got a good overall picture of what happened and who did what to whom, along with the when and why. Old 'Pooner had been basically told to put a sock into the old pie hole for awhile and let the folks in charge do their job. Essentially, shut up and get out of the way. And that's what I've done. Note to self... socks taste yucky....
So far, I can share this much and give ya'll an update....
1) When you buy anything, especially aviation related goodies, man, get a good receipt. Keep a good filing system. And keep that stuff forever. My "hoarder mentality" over the years fortunately trickled down to my paperwork and files, and for an easily distracted parts junkie, well, let's just say that's a good thing!
2) The individual here on this site who ended up with the cockpit is a true gentleman, scholar, and certainly appears to be a man of his word. He's got that Marine code of honor through and through, having made every effort to call all parties involved for resolution. There's so much still going on with this situation beneath the surface, and I know we're both looking forward to putting this both behind us. I'm hoping that in the next week or so this'll have wrapped up to a point where I can post some photos and tell the crazy story raw end un-edited. As it is right now, I still have a few loose ends to wrap up. And this sock in my pie hole really does taste awful!
3) There's a wonderful line in that old John Ford western epic "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance." Upon hearing the true accounts of a long and involved personal story, a group of newspapermen is told, "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." In the end, the true facts do come out, but getting to that point is sometimes convoluted and arduous. There are those along the way who wish to find issue, pick a fight, or simply try to re-write history.
Stay tuned. And let's all find a little something positive to say, especially about a particular Marine. He's got some powerful mojo or something going on there and I need to tap into that energy source. How exactly can you say anything bad about a guy who wants to preserve history and believes in it so strongly he's able to put a plan in motion in a few short days, and ultimately convinces his wife that his new acquisition is going to end up as a center piece in the family backyard?
More to follow, WIXers. MTF..... and Merry Christmas!
Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:52 am
Thanks for your post pooner good luck and I hope it all works out, what an adventure 
Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:39 pm
I TOLD you guys he was sitting in it going "Vrooom!" Who wouldn't? 
Glad to hear everything is working out for the two of you. It sounds like you have become allies in this quest for truth and preservation. Before you two go to war with someone else, try and make sure you both look at the other guys the same way you approached each other: Willing to set aside differences to save a piece of history!
Glad to hear everything is working out for the two of you. It sounds like you have become allies in this quest for truth and preservation. Before you two go to war with someone else, try and make sure you both look at the other guys the same way you approached each other: Willing to set aside differences to save a piece of history!
Mon Dec 24, 2007 2:44 pm
Pooner wrote:Note to self... socks taste yucky....
Now that's funny!
?????
Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:40 pm
I'm glad things seem to be working out.
Statements like this are what seemed to bother people the most
Statements like this are what seemed to bother people the most
Please be aware he is a former Marine and knows how to defend family and self. Please note my brother welcomes all to participate with his new project. As long as you are friend and not foe of course.
Mon Dec 24, 2007 7:23 pm
Just FYI, I've traded a couple of e-mails with Sam off-forum, and while he comes off kinda "in-your-face", I think it is because he is truly concerned that his brother was being portrayed initially as a bad person he isn't. His true passion is making sure the name and character of his brother and family aren't sullied. I got the impression that there were some heated words sent both Pooner and Dan's way during this whole thing by "anonymous" (I say cowardly) persons who had no direct knowledge of the events and that has fostered some distrust from Sam towards everyone else in general and it comes through in his posts.
I'm glad that everyone has met face-to-face and because of it things are getting worked out. I hope that even if Dan can't keep the Admiral, something will be found to replace it as I think it would be sad for either party in this case not to get a great Doug' nose to have for their own display.
I'm glad that everyone has met face-to-face and because of it things are getting worked out. I hope that even if Dan can't keep the Admiral, something will be found to replace it as I think it would be sad for either party in this case not to get a great Doug' nose to have for their own display.
Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:23 am
So Sam's "we will kick your asses" comment was directed towards the dingalings who were sending nastygrams. Shame he ever got put in the postition, both by circvumstance and lack of other's self control
People, if you can't make a threat face to face, you obviously don't have what it takes to back it up, so why even bother? All you're doing is making the rest of us roll our eyes and wish you were in another unit. Please. When it aten't your businass, keep it that way. Comments made here on WIX can at least be refuted, or even apologized for. Nasty little messages from the blue speak from the lowest and weakest part of our being and should remain in the province of weak nasty minded little men who say bad words, light crosses, and work from the shadows because right minded men would stomp them if they were ever caught at it.
Merry Christmas everybody!
People, if you can't make a threat face to face, you obviously don't have what it takes to back it up, so why even bother? All you're doing is making the rest of us roll our eyes and wish you were in another unit. Please. When it aten't your businass, keep it that way. Comments made here on WIX can at least be refuted, or even apologized for. Nasty little messages from the blue speak from the lowest and weakest part of our being and should remain in the province of weak nasty minded little men who say bad words, light crosses, and work from the shadows because right minded men would stomp them if they were ever caught at it.
Merry Christmas everybody!
Stolen Warbird
Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:54 pm
Well it appears this saga ends, as the FAA has determined based upon all the facts that "The Admiral" N44915 belonged to ABS Aviation Developent, Inc. and its registration can be traced to the FAA online site. The man who purchased the fuselage from ABS Aviation Development, Inc owns it free and clear as anything else related to this aircraft.
Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:01 pm
Bravo Sierra! That's a load of buffalo biscuits, and you know it.
Better continue to check your six on this one, amigo. By sheer luck an admitted clerical error on their part, FAA did indeed award a transfer of title on an airplane that no longer exists based upon information you supplied to Oklahoma City less than a week before Christmas. Geez, let me look at my notes here - that one was requested by you folks a little more than a week after a police report was filed. Indeed, one branch of the FAA was greatly interested to learn than this airplane issue was - and still is - an open investigation. As of Tuesday we were still exchanging documentation on this one.
I've been polite to this point, but your gloating statement quite frankly pisses me off to no end. Your complete and utter inability to own up to a situation is astounding, and you have the sheer gall to try to convince an internet community that you are in the right? Unreal. Did you ever bother to think that your actions have upset the lives of a whole chain of people along the way?
If this was a supposed asset of the company you worked for, why was it allowed to be scrapped? And why did the owner of this airplane sell it to us and allow me to cut the cockpit off so it could be saved for a museum? And why when I and several others toiled for many hours out there under the sun didn't you ever bother to come on over and question what in the heck I was doing sawing and grinding and pounding on your airplane - less than 30 feet from your fenceline - over a period of several weeks? I think if someone was monkeying around with my airplane I'd get a little pissed off and have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with that party... no?
And how come when I asked you about this in person - standing a few feet away from you in the hangar - you told me you had no idea what I was talking about until a police report had been filed? I guess I just didn't use the right words to describe the 6,500 pound hulk outside the compound there. My bad. Funny how the situation three or four days after filing went from "We contacted someone who said he was the owner and he didn't want anything to do with it anymore so we sold it" to "We thought it was abandoned and we sold it." Nice loop in the end there on your part to indicate that all property acquired from the business your firm bought pre-dated my contract with him by at least nine months.
How can it be that the person who sold this airplane to the scrapper told law enforcement officials that your firm did not "purchase any flying airplanes, stored airplanes, parts or tools..." as part of the business acquisition? Did he just forget about this one? Maybe he missed putting this into the contract or something like that? Is he the one we should go after for the ass-ache involved in all of this?
What's the real point of your post here, man? To piss me off? Ya'll ready did that back in December. To gloat at the FAA awarding your firm title to an airplane that doesn't exist? To further fan the flames or additonally frustrate the individuals who are dead center in all of this?
Got it. I like your tactics. Keep 'em comin'....
Better continue to check your six on this one, amigo. By sheer luck an admitted clerical error on their part, FAA did indeed award a transfer of title on an airplane that no longer exists based upon information you supplied to Oklahoma City less than a week before Christmas. Geez, let me look at my notes here - that one was requested by you folks a little more than a week after a police report was filed. Indeed, one branch of the FAA was greatly interested to learn than this airplane issue was - and still is - an open investigation. As of Tuesday we were still exchanging documentation on this one.
I've been polite to this point, but your gloating statement quite frankly pisses me off to no end. Your complete and utter inability to own up to a situation is astounding, and you have the sheer gall to try to convince an internet community that you are in the right? Unreal. Did you ever bother to think that your actions have upset the lives of a whole chain of people along the way?
If this was a supposed asset of the company you worked for, why was it allowed to be scrapped? And why did the owner of this airplane sell it to us and allow me to cut the cockpit off so it could be saved for a museum? And why when I and several others toiled for many hours out there under the sun didn't you ever bother to come on over and question what in the heck I was doing sawing and grinding and pounding on your airplane - less than 30 feet from your fenceline - over a period of several weeks? I think if someone was monkeying around with my airplane I'd get a little pissed off and have a "Come to Jesus" meeting with that party... no?
And how come when I asked you about this in person - standing a few feet away from you in the hangar - you told me you had no idea what I was talking about until a police report had been filed? I guess I just didn't use the right words to describe the 6,500 pound hulk outside the compound there. My bad. Funny how the situation three or four days after filing went from "We contacted someone who said he was the owner and he didn't want anything to do with it anymore so we sold it" to "We thought it was abandoned and we sold it." Nice loop in the end there on your part to indicate that all property acquired from the business your firm bought pre-dated my contract with him by at least nine months.
How can it be that the person who sold this airplane to the scrapper told law enforcement officials that your firm did not "purchase any flying airplanes, stored airplanes, parts or tools..." as part of the business acquisition? Did he just forget about this one? Maybe he missed putting this into the contract or something like that? Is he the one we should go after for the ass-ache involved in all of this?
What's the real point of your post here, man? To piss me off? Ya'll ready did that back in December. To gloat at the FAA awarding your firm title to an airplane that doesn't exist? To further fan the flames or additonally frustrate the individuals who are dead center in all of this?
Got it. I like your tactics. Keep 'em comin'....
Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:31 pm
One more point and I'll let it be, for now...
The FAA's records branch is a RECORDING AGENCY - meaning it does just that - it records and posts paperwork. The FAA branch in this particular situation did not rule, exercise judgment, weigh in favor of a legal matter or pick sides based upon arbitration. It merely issued a recording based upon basic information reviewed as submitted from the registering party.
The chronology of title itself is pretty simple. This R5D had originally been registered by an aviation company that changed hands twice over the period of three decades. Quite simply, they never felt the need to strike the airplane off of the FAA rosters and forfeit the N number - even after the airplane was scrapped. From a business perspective, this makes sense - an idle or derelict airplane sitting inoperative since say 1981 (which was the case for the Admiral) is much easier to keep on the books with the Fed instead of cancelling registration and starting all over again fresh and new.
In 2006, at least six large airplanes were scrapped en masse at Memorial. One can still see them listed by their respective N numbers on the FAA website. One could - in theory - contact the listed owners and make arrangements to buy an "airplane." An airplane, mind you, that technically doesn't exist. Oklahoma City would have no knowledge of the true status of the airframe - whether it sits on gear or is now being made into consumer goods somewhere in China.
One can spend a few minutes on the FAA website typing in a favorite aircraft type to see N numbers still posted on aircraft that have crashed, parted out and are long gone, but the "fingerprint" of the registration number is still there...
The FAA's records branch is a RECORDING AGENCY - meaning it does just that - it records and posts paperwork. The FAA branch in this particular situation did not rule, exercise judgment, weigh in favor of a legal matter or pick sides based upon arbitration. It merely issued a recording based upon basic information reviewed as submitted from the registering party.
The chronology of title itself is pretty simple. This R5D had originally been registered by an aviation company that changed hands twice over the period of three decades. Quite simply, they never felt the need to strike the airplane off of the FAA rosters and forfeit the N number - even after the airplane was scrapped. From a business perspective, this makes sense - an idle or derelict airplane sitting inoperative since say 1981 (which was the case for the Admiral) is much easier to keep on the books with the Fed instead of cancelling registration and starting all over again fresh and new.
In 2006, at least six large airplanes were scrapped en masse at Memorial. One can still see them listed by their respective N numbers on the FAA website. One could - in theory - contact the listed owners and make arrangements to buy an "airplane." An airplane, mind you, that technically doesn't exist. Oklahoma City would have no knowledge of the true status of the airframe - whether it sits on gear or is now being made into consumer goods somewhere in China.
One can spend a few minutes on the FAA website typing in a favorite aircraft type to see N numbers still posted on aircraft that have crashed, parted out and are long gone, but the "fingerprint" of the registration number is still there...