"Swamp Ghost" news (September 2008)

[warbird1]

Unless I missed something, Swamp Ghost was always planned to go to the Travis AFB museum. Am I wrong?

RICK

Yes.

[Robbie Roberts]

I'm watching Justin's "Swamp Ghost" video right now- quite enjoyable... Met him at Reading, and enjoyed chatting with him.

Robbie

[Curtis Block]

Has anyone heard or read a statement from Justin regarding this new development?

[Robbie Roberts]

When I spoke with him at Reading, we seemed to be of the same opinion- first, we both would have preferred her to stay where she was in the swamp, but if she did, she would eventually disintegrate which neither of us would have liked. Short of that, we both felt her then-current accommodations(in connex boxes in impound by PNG) was just as bad, and we'd both rather see her go somewhere for preservation.

I can't say what his final word is tho- that was just the gist of our conversation. Seemed like a decent guy.

Robbie

http://www.postcourier.com.pg:80/20080915/news.htm

Swamp Ghost sale illegal

THE National Executive Council (NEC) decision to allow the Swamp Ghost wreck to be exported is an illegal decision and the NEC has actually participated in that conspiracy by giving an approval which it has no legal power to make.

This was said in a joint statement issued yesterday by the deputy chairman of the Public Accounts Committee and Governor of Western Province Dr Bob Danaya and Member of the PAC and Governor of Eastern Highlands Mal Kela Smith.

Both governors said this decision by the NEC showed very clearly the collapse of the rule of law in Papua New Guinea.

“And, all citizens can now see that the NEC is prepared to ignore thelaw and embrace and approve illegal transactions and acquisitions of State property by foreigners who themselves have no certification to work in PNG and who on — sell our heritage for profit confident that they will never be called to account,” the governors said.

They said the NEC decision totally ignores the law and advice given by the Attorney General, the State Solicitor, the PAC, O’Briens Lawyers and the Gubon Lawyers that the sale was illegal, the export was illegal and the removal from Agaiembo swamp was illegal.

The governors said the NEC has not only endorsed a conspiracy to illegally acquired public property by foreigners who have no capacity to restore or preserve the wreck and also completely ignored the fact that the wreck is sub judice in the National Court.

“Further, the NEC submission was intentionally misleading and deceitful as it again stated that the wreck was to go to March Field Museum in California,” they said.

They said on August 4, the museum again said there was no such arrangement and also had no knowledge of the Swamp Ghost or its exporters and intended to write to the PNG Government protesting that the name of the museum was again being used without its knowledge.
The governors asked to know which destination the Swamp Ghost was going to . . . who has actually bought it and why did the NEC accept the submission without seeking confirmation.

They said the Minister for Cultural and Tourism has no jurisdiction over the wreck nor does the museum.

The only person with legal power to approve such salvage is the Governor-General acting on advice – and even he cannot approve a sale.

[RyanShort1]

Deleted

Ryan

Last edited by RyanShort1 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

[bdk]

Has anyone heard or read a statement from Justin regarding this new development?

Why would anyone care what he thinks? Does having a website and selling videos make him an authority?

As I recall, he wasn't really welcome in some of these places anyhow. Somthing about stealing artifacts and entering countries illegally. Doesn't sound like anyone I'd want to hang out with!

[Mick Grinter]

It will be interesting to see what the future holds for other wrecks that are recovered.
What the story wil be at the moment there is no chance of getting an export permit from the PNG Government.
And the Australian government agrees wit them the Atourney General ruled on it.
It makes it hard for everyone when there are so many exelent wrecks that we know of.

LOL! What a joke. Lots of good mis-information there. First, they act as if THEY owned the plane, which they didn't. Ryan

http://www.theswampghost.com/news/pac/final.html

On the 23rd February 1942 - B17 E 41-2446 crashed in Agiambo Swamp, Oro Province

In 1953 the wreck is declared to be property of the State by the War Surplus Materials Act.

WAR SURPLUS MATERIALS ACT 1953

This Act was first passed in 1953 to control the salvage and export of war surplus material.

Section 2 – Ownership of War Surplus Material. This Section deems all War Surplus Material be the absolute property of the State.

This Section then establishes that all War Surplus Material – including the Swamp Ghost and all other aircraft wrecks – were the absolute property of the Independent State of Papua New Guinea – and remain so.

[RyanShort1]

Deleted

Ryan

Last edited by RyanShort1 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

I bet that if the real facts are ever known, and everything comes to light, that it will turn out that the folks doing the recovery did all their homework, did what reasonable people would do to abide by the "rule of law." Ryan

http://www.theswampghost.com/news/pac/p ... peech.html

Clear evidence was received of Trustees and management being threatened by these foreigners and in one instance, of a senior manager of the Museum being physically assaulted by an exporter.

[JDK]

Has anyone heard or read a statement from Justin regarding this new development?

Why would anyone care what he thinks? Does having a website and selling videos make him an authority?

As I recall, he wasn't really welcome in some of these places anyhow. Somthing about stealing artifacts and entering countries illegally. Doesn't sound like anyone I'd want to hang out with!

It's a bit more complex than that, bdk. You can go from hero to villain and back in an afternoon dealing with PNG issues; and just taking an interest can be enough to be a villain. What's 'legal' in one scenario is 'illegal' in another, and what's 'right' may not be 'legal'.

Justin, like several other people is an 'authority' on the topic because he's undertaken a lot of research, bush bashing to wrecks (which you and I are too smart to try!) and published on the matter. I don't agree with everything he's said and done, but unlike some others, most of what you see is what you get. There's been a few people quite happy to assist in heat being directed at Justin as it stops their actions and motive come under scrutiny; as in the thread here you are recalling.

I don't think we'll ever get all the 'facts' on this story or many of the others - let's just hope Swamp Ghost ends up in decent care somewhere.

Regards,

[RyanShort1]

Deleted

Ryan

Last edited by RyanShort1 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

I'll bet the exporters were never in that court to defend themselves. It's easy to try someone and defeat them in their absence.Ryan

http://www.theswampghost.com/news/pac/final.html

26.37 This Committee has written to identified receivers or buyers of aircraft, seeking information and assistance. With two exceptions, we have received no reply – and the two replies which were received were self serving and evasive. Both refused to identify the person or company from which they had “purchased” the aircraft in their possession – which were originally exported from Papua New Guinea.

26.38 The Committee has called for submissions from the three major exporters mentioned earlier in this Report, concerning the current whereabouts of aircraft that they have removed from Papua New Guinea. We have received no reply.

[Mick Grinter]

Yes well US Law means nothing down here or in PNG.
They work under the Pommy system.The high court of england that sort os Spiffing Stuff.
But there was a ruleing after WW2 and the rule was AS IS WHERE IS.Sounds good doesn't it.
When the various governments were asked after the war to remove all their rubish (wrecks) and ordenance these governments worked out they couldn't poiibly aford to do that.And PNG Being a part of Australia.The law AS IS WHERE IS came about.And i am afraid that's the law.
That law still exists on the mainland of australia there is a lot of ordenance in Australia and in PNG.
Go figure