Warbird Information Exchange

...On the subject of kids today being worse than when we were young: I remember a qoute when I was a teen that said how lazy the youth were, how no-account they had become, and how they didn't know what hard work was....and then found the name "Socrates" as the person being qouted!

In my own world, I have to say that its not the youth's fault entirely when they have been raised to expect the world and more because they asked for it. In the USA, for many years, we have been the top of the heap, the best in the world; and that has lead to higher expectations. That's rough into today's actual world, where places are going out of business left and right. This country simply isn't on the upswing the way it was even 30 years ago.

That said, I find many younger people have an mindest that puts them at odds with a business owner, instead of leading them to understand they need to be an asset to a business. The post above detailing "It's all about the bottom line" is 100% correct.You work for a person who themselves is trying to make a living, they are not mommy and daddy, they owe you nothing- just what you both agreed upon at time of hire.

If blame is to be laid anywhere on the state of youth today, I would lay it at the feet of things like "No child left behind" dragging down the standards and rewarding the lazy....long before they get as far as trying to get their A & P. It's just we ALL pay for this in the end, in many, many industries.

I find the older I get, the more I have to remind myself what it was like to be young before judgeing too harshly. I certainly did some stupid things in my youth, nut I also paid the price and accepted the charge!

Yeah the real sad thing is, there are some out here that could do way more and a much better job and know much more than some that have an A&P license, but naaa they haven't waisted the time at a school. So ya aint qualified.

Yeah funny the generations. The ones born in early 1900's to 20 or so, had the best opportunities, since technology was just starting. If you knew something about what ever you could get a job in it without a degree. And they did get their retirement.

The Generation born in the 1950's is the crap generation. We get crapped on all the time. And will have to work into our 90's if any make it that far.

The Generation born in the Late 70's is the spoiled brat generation, their parents ie the crap generation do everything for them. And some of them are retired now.

The Generation born to the Brat generation???? We don't know what they will be yet.

So the ones that everyone is talking about are the ones of the spoiled brat generation. They have no burdens they just put all that on their parents, yes some of them are well into adult hood. But you really can't tell that. Since most seem they were just weened and still wear diapers.
Sorry if I offend anyone. Its just observation.

You have got to be kidding me. They are the ones riding the medical care in this country into the dirt right now. They are the ones leading corporations into the dirt as well. THey are also going to ride Soc Sec into the dirt. Are't hey also the majority of our Senate now? At least I'm sur ethey are the ones with the longest senority and tehrefore the greatest power...

Who is REALLY going to get the short end of it where it's painful? Those of us born in the late 60's to mid 70's. We are the ones who have watched our education system butchered and the Soc Sec benefits we are paying used to support those born in the 50's, and our medical care gutted because those born in the 50's and 60's have used it and abused it until we can't afford insurance, much less a kid's braces or a wife's pregnancy.

Gen 50's will be long dead before we are done paying their bills.

If they're lucky the Gen X'ers will be able to rebuild what the children of the '50s and 60's have screwed up so badly. They may well be our next generation like we had in WWII--you know, grew up in a depression, no work no money no food...and went of and saved the world. We're almost back to the 30's now, ya know

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

I was born in 1981 and I work pretty damned hard to be the best mechanic/person I can be, I'm a commercial pilot and an A&P, I'm studying for my CFI certificates and my IA, I work at a flight school, I teach on occaision, I have a college degree and the student loans to prove it. I've needed some help from my parents along the way, I absolutely hate asking them for it.

I have never once whined about anything someone else has, opportunities included. Yes, some of my friends' parents paid for all their training, they happened to be better off than my parents, but they all made good on their parents' investment as well. In the meantime, I'm perfectly happy to keep working toward my goals.

so piss off

You are one of the RARE and DEDICATED ONES. I have two types of students in A&P school. The ones who WANT to be there, and love aircraft, and everything that has to do with them, and the ones who are just there to keep off the couch for a while. (I also have adult learners, who have been around, and know how things really work, and who are there for a career change. They are never a problem)

The ones who love aircraft show up on time, do everything I ask of them, and are doing their dam^dest to do well and learn. I never have much problem with them. The other students I have- the ones just buying time off the couch- believe we owe them a living, do the least possible, get high on their break times, show up late, leave early, don't put any effort into learning, give me a hard time, abuse the system and the aircraft they are expected to learn on.

I asked one student the other night, very directly, WHY he insisted on leaving every night early, and using up the entirety of the 20% of class he was allowed to miss(This is an "in case of emergency" provision- the students are required to do make-up work for the time) His answer- a direct quote- "Because I can" with a smart a$$ grin. Between him and two other similarly aligned students, I had to process around 100 makeup sheets for the last term- more than ALL of my current students for the current term combined! I wrote him up, so he could discuss this attitude with the evening coordinator.

Many of the slacker students do shoddy, half-effort work. They refuse to learn the way to use the manuals, don't care when I correct them on tool use. Not the adult learners and dedicated ones. If I could, the slackers would get thrown out of the school- they waste my time, their time, and the other students time, as well as their money.

When I try to help them, and tell them the proper way to do things, or tell them about what will happen in real life after they(maybe) graduate, they laugh me off, and tell me about the great jobs they have lined up at engine shops(P&W for one) or elsewhere, and how they'll be making great money when I'm stuck teaching. They haven't got a F'Ing clue. I am just worried about how liable the school may be should one of these morons slip through, and actually be the cause of a major air disaster...

Why do I teach them? I am building my skills through each class, and getting paid for it. I do not intend to teach forever. I fully intend to get into a restoration facility at some point in the next few years.

I'm starting to ramble and rant. Suffice it to say, L2GF, you are an exception- most of what I see is false pride, bravado and ignorance, attempting to do work they are not capable of, and refusing to learn so they are.

Time to do away with TV & the internet, and all these BS programs to make stupid people feel good, at the expense of society.

Grumpily,
Robbie- and I AM "Pissed Off"- with the fact these people slip through all their lives, and will never know the truth, till they get themselves(or others) hurt or killed through their ineptitude.

Jog on ...

Robbie, you're missing half the equation: Those kids have are children of the 90's, not the 80's. But both have been so screwed around by coke addled, television dazed, divorced parents that they have no idea what life is about. What they DO know is that the generations before them had a decent chance of getting through college without signing their futures away. And those educations cost proportionally FAR less than they do today. And those educations stood a decent chance of getting them a job that would let them raise a family. Instead, we now have a generation of kids who have been taught to distrust the system by their parents, who in the 60's and 70's decided the system was broken and they were going to rebuild it--and they did--very badly.

All those kids you are complaining about were babysat by TV and video games, likely turned to pot at an early age because they had no parental control and no reason to think they could have a nice life because their parents obviously had a crappy life and weren't likely to get ahead anytime soon. Or if they were doing okay, the kids ended up spoiled out of their heads, and unable to grok that you get things...by working. Everybody in here whings on about the welfare system, but in all reality the welfare system is a broken attempt to give poor kids what well-off kids get because of genetic accident: their parents got some, probably because...their parents had some. And it screws BOTH ends of the spectrum up unless their parents somehow gain the skills to teach their kids how to behave. Not very likely as they're both busy being self absorbed drunk television boob heads themselves.

The problem: All you see is the end result of a bunch of worthless tards who should have had their tubes cut twenty years ago so they wouldn't inflict their moronic lives on you and me by allowing them to have moronic kids who they then taught every bad habit they had spent a lifetime learning themselves.


We now have the best educated morons humankind has ever known. I have schoolmates whose kids are in prison for rape. Why? They didn't care. I have schoolmates kids who are in prison for extortion. Why? they didn't care.

Human beings are learning animals, Bud. THEY LEARN THIS STUFF.

Want to see the end result of all these idiots making idiot babies? Go rent IDIOCRACY.

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

[quote="Robbie Roberts"][quote="love2gofly"]

I was born in 1981 and I work pretty damned hard to be the best mechanic/person I can be, I'm a commercial pilot and an A&P, I'm studying for my CFI certificates and my IA, I work at a flight school, I teach on occaision, I have a college degree and the student loans to prove it. I've needed [i]some[/i] help from my parents along the way, I absolutely [i]hate[/i] asking them for it.

I have never once whined about anything someone else has, opportunities included. Yes, some of my friends' parents paid for all their training, they happened to be better off than my parents, but they all made good on their parents' investment as well. In the meantime, I'm perfectly happy to keep working toward my goals.

so piss off [/quote]

You are one of the RARE and DEDICATED ONES. I have two types of students in A&P school. The ones who WANT to be there, and love aircraft, and everything that has to do with them, and the ones who are just there to keep off the couch for a while. (I also have adult learners, who have been around, and know how things really work, and who are there for a career change. They are never a problem)

The ones who love aircraft show up on time, do everything I ask of them, and are doing their dam^dest to do well and learn. I never have much problem with them. The other students I have- the ones just buying time off the couch- believe we owe them a living, do the least possible, get high on their break times, show up late, leave early, don't put any effort into learning, give me a hard time, abuse the system and the aircraft they are expected to learn on.

I asked one student the other night, very directly, WHY he insisted on leaving every night early, and using up the entirety of the 20% of class he was allowed to miss(This is an "in case of emergency" provision- the students are required to do make-up work for the time) His answer- a direct quote- "Because I can" with a smart a$$ grin. Between him and two other similarly aligned students, I had to process around 100 makeup sheets for the last term- more than ALL of my current students for the current term combined! I wrote him up, so he could discuss this attitude with the evening coordinator.

Many of the slacker students do shoddy, half-effort work. They refuse to learn the way to use the manuals, don't care when I correct them on tool use. Not the adult learners and dedicated ones. If I could, the slackers would get thrown out of the school- they waste my time, their time, and the other students time, as well as their money.

When I try to help them, and tell them the proper way to do things, or tell them about what will happen in real life after they(maybe) graduate, they laugh me off, and tell me about the great jobs they have lined up at engine shops(P&W for one) or elsewhere, and how they'll be making great money when I'm stuck teaching. They haven't got a F'Ing clue. I am just worried about how liable the school may be should one of these morons slip through, and actually be the cause of a major air disaster...

Why do I teach them? I am building my skills through each class, and getting paid for it. I do not intend to teach forever. I fully intend to get into a restoration facility at some point in the next few years.

I'm starting to ramble and rant. Suffice it to say, L2GF, you are an exception- most of what I see is false pride, bravado and ignorance, attempting to do work they are not capable of, and refusing to learn so they are.

Time to do away with TV & the internet, and all these BS programs to make stupid people feel good, at the expense of society.

Grumpily,
Robbie- and I AM "Pissed Off"- with the fact these people slip through all their lives, and will never know the truth, till they get themselves(or others) hurt or killed through their ineptitude.

Jog on ... [/quote]


I wouldn't worry Robbie. They will soon be found out on the job and terminated.. Unless you get hired at a big union shop they won't last long in the field. Most shops can't aford mistakes.. Let you students know that P&W just layed off 1000. Just let me know how that big grin faded..

Well, this was a good thread... until the inter-generational bickering started

Being one of the old-timers I could make a few comments about some of the statements in the above posts, but won't. No need to continue the finger-pointing.

_________________
"They can teach MONKEYS to fly better than that"

http://www.heritageflight.org
http://www.bravo369.org

Hal, this whole thread has been one big sucking chest wound. The original subject was about how awful kids today are, and it hasn't really ever stopped being about that. My full opinion: You don't like kids today? get off your sorry seat cushions and try to rescue a couple. The great mass of humanity is worthless. Only a couple of the people you meet each day are going to be worth a darn, it's just the way it is. If you think otherwise you're only fooling yourself. Better to grab the gems you find among the trash heap and shine them and forget the rest of the idiots. The rest is just crap.

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Wow, that says a lot! "The great mass of humanity is worthless" Are you including yourself or me in that statement? And who gets to make that determination? Yes, there are lots of Bozo's out there (of all ages), but also lots of good folks, from senior citizens to teen-agers. Guess I'll just keep fooling myself... otherwise there's not a lot of hope for humanity.

And yes there was some complaining about the younger generation from the start in this thread, but also a LOT of good discussion about what could be done to improve A&P training. Besides, complaining about the next generation has been going on for hundreds of generation, just like kids complaining about the mess the old codgers have left for them. Nothing new...

_________________
"They can teach MONKEYS to fly better than that"

http://www.heritageflight.org
http://www.bravo369.org

Couldn't agree more, muddyboots. The core values are missing among a great bunch of people. I see the current generation as slightly lazy, and somewhat addicted to x-boxes. At the same time, people tend to look back at tjhemselves, and exaggerate how bad the new generation really is. Perhaps the late 60's and early 70 generation is worse than the current one.

And, again I agree w/ muddyboots, some of the posts are too wordy, and not summarized enough. Kind of a morass.

Sure Hal. We're all a bunch of rocket scientists.

http://www.darwinawards.com/

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

What? A person of the class ie a PEE ON like most of us are that would apply for an A&P job, is not the same class that runs the country. We here are talking about the middle class and not in the multimillionair range. You had the same crud people running things back in the old days too, so that is nothing new with this generation. Listen to the youtube speach Lindberg made and everyone is booing him.
And no one said it was "every younger person or generation this or that"
their are exceptions. But with the younger ones that is very rare.
I blame my generation the born in 50's one, for putting them there.
When my kids were born it was the movement of gloifiying mother hood.
They all had to go to class to learn how to have a baby, how to breast feed it etc. Funny animals and people in the waggon trains heading west didn't need all that. Then came the never spank the little darlings deal, and we all know where that began. So instead of being parents the mother and father tried to be a good friend to them never scolding or spanking etc. We are now living the result of that.

After Germany invaded Poland in 1939, Lindbergh resigned his commission as a colonel in the U.S. Army Air Corps on September 14, 1939 to campaign as a private citizen for the antiwar America First Committee.


Eng, I am absolutley discussing the over 50's in our country. Who do you think uses the vast majority of the medical system? Who do you think has driven up the cost of medical care for younger people? Who's sucking the life out of Social Security?

It is absolutely true that the older generations are resting on the hard work of the younger generations, and are whining that they are worthless and lazy...erm...yeah, right.

As for your not in charge argument...who is in charge of 90 percent of the shops in Am4erica? Certainly not 20 year olds. However, this is turning into a political argument and gonna get locked. Lets get off this crazy talk and get back on topic about the trade, not who has ruined our country, eh? Far as I am concerned WE ALL DID.

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."