Doolittle Raid B-25B Questions?

[Ken]

Not sure why they weren't painted, but the accounts in the histories say that all the airplanes got brand new props during their mods, that may be part of the answer.

[Ken]

bump

[Maty12]

I know this is a pretty old thread, but I'm doing some research on the raiders for pack of user skins I'm making for a flight simulator (And because this raid has always fascinated me), but I'm curious. Lawson's stated that the noseart on TSOT's Duck is a bit off, but I found this picture which, to me at least, looks pretty authentic and shows the exact same noseart as in the movies, although further back on the fuselage. What do you guys think? Is this the real Duck?

[img][IMG]http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/Maty10225/rduckref_zpshfvdzvhm.jpeg[/img][/img]

Also, does anyone have any pictures of the Whirling Dervish? I can't seem to find any showing the noseart.

[RyanShort1]

I know this is a pretty old thread, but I'm doing some research on the raiders for pack of user skins I'm making for a flight simulator (And because this raid has always fascinated me), but I'm curious. Lawson's stated that the noseart on TSOT's Duck is a bit off, but I found this picture which, to me at least, looks pretty authentic and shows the exact same noseart as in the movies, although further back on the fuselage. What do you guys think? Is this the real Duck?

[img][IMG]http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad337/Maty10225/rduckref_zpshfvdzvhm.jpeg[/img][/img]

Also, does anyone have any pictures of the Whirling Dervish? I can't seem to find any showing the noseart.

Pretty sure that's the movie Duck. We really need to get someone to get copies of the 35 MM Navy reel footage and see if there are some more stills that can be captured and used from them.

Ryan
www.DoolittleRaid.com

[mustangdriver]

That is one of two B-25's from the filming that were painted like the Duck. When I talked to Ellen Lawson she said that the nose art was more like what you see depicted in the Accurate Miniatures model kit that came out a while back with a decal sheet of all the raiders on it. It has a slight side view. I asked David Thatcher and he remembers the duck painted on but not many of the details. Ellen said that Ted had something drawn up that was more accurate. She shared a copy with me. This is what the model company used as well. Here is a link. http://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/us/grenb25.htm I hope that helps.

[Maty12]

But didn't the movie Ducks have the regular C/D navigator's window? This one has the B's flat ones and the colored cowl rings are nowhere in sight (Although this could be the Duck that had red cowl rings). Besides, the two pictures of the movie Ducks in this thread show noseart just in front of the cockpit, while this one has it directly underneath. Either way, can anyone send me a picture of that decal sheet?

[Pathfinder]

You make a good point about the position of the art directly under the pilot window vs the two movie items I posted earlier in this thread.

The 'font' is consistent between all three examples.

[Pathfinder]

Just discovered this page/site purporting to be the "original artist and nose art" of the Duck! Provenance is the quote from Lawson in his book....curioser and curioser...

http://www.rupturedducknoseart.com/

[Ken]

In the supposed RD photo, what were the twin probes seen just outside the nose glass? Temp or TAS probes? Was this standard on the B-25B?

The closeup with sentry by the nose in MSP doesn't show those probes:

http://timothyblotz.com/2012/04/13/the- ... old-story/

These photos of a Raider-modified airplane are some of the best I've seen although due to its damage I'm sure it missed the raid:

http://www.doolittleraider.com/forum/vi ... f=82&t=580

[Maty12]

Is the first sketch or the second one the right one? Also, the tubes in the nose and the propeller blades (Neither the ones they had during training nor the ones they had in the raid) make it seem like this might be a B-25 someone painted to look like Lawson's, perhaps due to his book and/or the movie.

[Garth]

That is one of two B-25's from the filming that were painted like the Duck. When I talked to Ellen Lawson she said that the nose art was more like what you see depicted in the Accurate Miniatures model kit that came out a while back with a decal sheet of all the raiders on it. It has a slight side view. I asked David Thatcher and he remembers the duck painted on but not many of the details. Ellen said that Ted had something drawn up that was more accurate. She shared a copy with me. This is what the model company used as well. Here is a link. http://modelingmadness.com/review/allies/us/grenb25.htm I hope that helps.

The Accurate Miniatures Ruptured Duck nose art is an exact match for the Duck's nose art as shown on the cover of my first copy of Thirty Seconds -- a Landmark soft-cover edition picked up in the early 1980s with a "copyright renewed" date of 1971 but no publishing date.

The cover shows the Duck from the front starboard quarter (so the nose art on the wrong side of the aircraft) with a big white "24" on the tail, no meatball in the national insignia and being chased by two yellow Zeros.

(aside: I think the white "24" might have come from the artist using the Monogram Snap-Tite B-25 as a model - should be glad that he at least left off the "bars" from the insignia and the sharkmouth)

[Garth]

I came accross some pictures of interest on the http://www.doolittleraider.com website. Most familiar to me but the first one was new to me.

Question #1 Where is this picture actually from? Thirty Seconds over Tokyo?

The image below is itneresting to me for a few reasons. The caption would lead you to believe that this is a picture that was taken on April 18, 1942 of a B-25B taking off from the USS hornet as part of the Doolittle Raid. Something about this picture just doesnt seem right to me. 1. The picture is taken form the perspective that would require the photgrapher to be beyond the bow of the Hornet. 2. The cowlings seem "weird." 3. The aircraft in the picture including those on the deck all seem to have yellow or white cowling rings.



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Any solid infomration regarding these questions would really be interesting to know.

thank youi, Ryan

Going back just a bit in this thread.

One think about that picture that I don't think I've seen mentioned yet is that if you look under the forward port portion of "Hornet's" flight deck you'll see what look to be stacked wood boards holding it up.

IIRC there was a life-sized portion of the Hornet's flight-deck and island built for the movie. I'm thinking that's what this is. The plane sure looks like a model to me tho, possibly some sort of super-imposition of the model taking off in front of the set?

[RyanShort1]

I came accross some pictures of interest on the http://www.doolittleraider.com website. Most familiar to me but the first one was new to me.

Question #1 Where is this picture actually from? Thirty Seconds over Tokyo?

The image below is itneresting to me for a few reasons. The caption would lead you to believe that this is a picture that was taken on April 18, 1942 of a B-25B taking off from the USS hornet as part of the Doolittle Raid. Something about this picture just doesnt seem right to me. 1. The picture is taken form the perspective that would require the photgrapher to be beyond the bow of the Hornet. 2. The cowlings seem "weird." 3. The aircraft in the picture including those on the deck all seem to have yellow or white cowling rings.



-----------

Any solid infomration regarding these questions would really be interesting to know.

thank youi, Ryan

Going back just a bit in this thread.

One think about that picture that I don't think I've seen mentioned yet is that if you look under the forward port portion of "Hornet's" flight deck you'll see what look to be stacked wood boards holding it up.

IIRC there was a life-sized portion of the Hornet's flight-deck and island built for the movie. I'm thinking that's what this is. The plane sure looks like a model to me tho, possibly some sort of super-imposition of the model taking off in front of the set?

There are no people on deck or at the gun positions in the photo...

[Pathfinder]

Back on page 5 of this thread I did a side by side of the historical pic against the movie version. I think the pic above is from the movie.

[Maty12]

The Accurate Miniatures Ruptured Duck nose art is an exact match for the Duck's nose art as shown on the cover of my first copy of Thirty Seconds -- a Landmark soft-cover edition picked up in the early 1980s with a "copyright renewed" date of 1971 but no publishing date.

The cover shows the Duck from the front starboard quarter (so the nose art on the wrong side of the aircraft) with a big white "24" on the tail, no meatball in the national insignia and being chased by two yellow Zeros.

(aside: I think the white "24" might have come from the artist using the Monogram Snap-Tite B-25 as a model - should be glad that he at least left off the "bars" from the insignia and the sharkmouth)

Can you post a picture of that cover?