Otay Reservoir SB2C-The recovery operation has begun!!!

[Sutts]

Thanks for posting those excellent shots Jesse. Stunning condition considering how long she's been down there and no zebra mussels!

A big WELL DONE to the team for taking their time getting that silt out and pulling this off without a hitch. I'm a happy fella

[mustangdriver]

I wonder what the full history of this aircraft is. I am so thrilled that NMNA is getting a Helldiver.

[B-25 C]

Wow Looks like another project I'd like to work on! Another one saved!!! Congrats to all!

[TimAPNY]

I wonder what the full history of this aircraft is. I am so thrilled that NMNA is getting a Helldiver.

This was posted on Facebook about the aircraft. The first page or so is general info but then it goes into the history of the aircraft recovered.

http://www.navalaviationmuseum.org/getd ... ising.aspx

Tim

[warbird1]

Super job by the team once again-congrats to A & T, San Diego officials and lets not forget the US Navy who made it possible by allowing the recovery. What can top this as far as Navy birds go from US wates go- Corsair maybe

Dave

Ummm.......TBD....the last extinct bird the Museum really, really needs.

[Owen Miller]

I have no interest in beating a dead horse here, so
please lets no rehash the Champlin affair. Trust me,
NNAM wants a TBD as badly as any of us want them
to have one. The reality is someone is needed to
come forward to sponsor it. Just as someone spon-
sored the Helldiver recovery, the Hellcat recovery,
and the two SBDs before that, an outside source of
funding is needed.

The navy has no money for this. They are fighting
one war and supporting another winding down. They
have a lot of sailors to feed. They don't want to see
Olympia scrapped. They have hundreds of worthy
projects. What we need to do is find a sponsor.

[Buzzking]

I have no interest in beating a dead horse here, so
please lets no rehash the Champlin affair. Trust me,
NNAM wants a TBD as badly as any of us want them
to have one. The reality is someone is needed to
come forward to sponsor it. Just as someone spon-
sored the Helldiver recovery, the Hellcat recovery,
and the two SBDs before that, an outside source of
funding is needed.

The navy has no money for this. They are fighting
one war and supporting another winding down. They
have a lot of sailors to feed. They don't want to see
Olympia scrapped. They have hundreds of worthy
projects. What we need to do is find a sponsor.

Oh please Mr. Miller,

If the Navy got off their high horse and decide to sell some of the airframes they have pulled out of the Lakes they were be money.

[Owen Miller]

OK, one more time........

For years members of this board criticised the navy for three things.

1. They stopped recoveries.

2. The "hoarded" the planes in storage in Pensacola and would
not share them with other museums around the country.

3. They would not sell to a private concern or individual.

Here we are in 2010 and two of the three policies have been reversed.
They are coming up at a rapid pace and the birds are now all over the
country. Have you ever heard of compromise? You got two thirds of
what ya wanted. I don't think you'll ever see one restored to flying
condition. Liability just won't let it happen. Blame the trial lawyers
if you want. What we need to do is cooperate with the navy. Quit
wasting time, breath, and energy. Go find a donor..........

[DaveM2]

Super job by the team once again-congrats to A & T, San Diego officials and lets not forget the US Navy who made it possible by allowing the recovery. What can top this as far as Navy birds go from US waters go- Corsair maybe

Dave

Ummm.......TBD....the last extinct bird the Museum really, really needs.

Perhaps I should have said Continental US waters....

[F3A-1]

For years members of this board criticised the navy for three things.

1. They stopped recoveries.

2. The "hoarded" the planes in storage in Pensacola and would
not share them with other museums around the country.

3. They would not sell to a private concern or individual.

Here we are in 2010 and two of the three policies have been reversed.
They are coming up at a rapid pace and the birds are now all over the
country. Have you ever heard of compromise? You got two thirds of
what ya wanted. I don't think you'll ever see one restored to flying
condition. Liability just won't let it happen. Blame the trial lawyers
if you want. What we need to do is cooperate with the navy. Quit
wasting time, breath, and energy. Go find a donor..........


Respectfully,

I cannot support tyranny. The will of the people is for the U.S.Navy to relinquish ownership of the aircraft they have formally abandoned long ago. Naval Aviation history is doomed to destruction due to federal bureaucracy. You are correct that the attorneys have convinced the Navy that NO airframes should be allowed to fly lest they WILL be sued when they crash!

"We the people" should control the "government of the people, by the people", not the opposite. The policies have not changed until the Navy has abandoned the aircraft that they had physically and administratively struck from their records until the late 1970's.

I, for one, have known of this SB2C for many years. The U.S.Navy's position of ownership has done much to prevent sharing knowledge of this, and other crash sites.

CONGRATS to the recovery crew!


Pirate Lex
http://www.BrewsterCorsair.com

[sgt hawk]

Just a treat when something like this is a success. A very rare one gets recovered in what appears to be remarkable shape for a 65 year submersion. Cudos to all involved! We need someone down in P'Cola to keep us up on the restoration. Way to go NAVY and all participants!

[Owen Miller]

Lex,
You are one of my heroes. The way you were treated by
NHC was reprehensible. It just makes me cringe. I believe I
appreciate and respect your point of view. However, in todays
litigious society things must be viewed in the long term.

Below is a post of mine from 2004. I believe it remains valid.
Lex, we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. I
prefer to focus on the positive progress in USN warbird recovery
and dissemination, rather than continue to "pick at the scab"
of healing with the new policies of Naval History & Heritage
Command. I invite all open minded folks to join me.


Certainly I can't speak for the navy, but if it were I,
liability would be a huge concern. We all remember the
Chacks suit against Grumman. And there was a case some
years ago involving a failed nose gear during taxi, a
severed leg, and a lawsuit. The court ruled that the
government failed to properly adequately inspect the
plane 30 years before the transfer.

I think we'd all agree we live in a litigious society.
When I was in the 7th grade a Navy T-2 from Pensacola
crashed in a vegetable garden about 150 yards from my
school. No one was hurt, there were no suits, every-
one just thanked God. What do you think would happen
today? Can you imagine if a privately owned/operated
Wildcat or Dauntless wound up in a schoolyard?

Now some may say that is a remote possibility, but is it?
I like seeing them fly as much as the next guy. I've
rode on both Collings bombers, and it was the experience
of a lifetime. I'm just saying' there are at least
two sides to every issue. If I was the navy or if I were
Grumman, or Boeing who absorbed Douglas, I may not have
your level of enthusiasm.

Yes, I know the USAF does things differently. Certainly
that is their prerogative and the fact that the USAF does
not claim to "own" stricken war birds like the Navy
does.

[warbird1]

Super job by the team once again-congrats to A & T, San Diego officials and lets not forget the US Navy who made it possible by allowing the recovery. What can top this as far as Navy birds go from US waters go- Corsair maybe

Dave

Ummm.......TBD....the last extinct bird the Museum really, really needs.

Perhaps I should have said Continental US waters....

Ummm, there is..... a TBD......just offshore of Miami.

[JDK]

Generally, I don't support pirates in their endeavours, but in the case of our Pirate Lex, I'm certainly impressed by your achievements. But (you guessed that 'but' was coming, right?)

I cannot support tyranny. The will of the people is for the U.S.Navy to relinquish ownership of the aircraft they have formally abandoned long ago.

Frankly the vast majority of people don't give a d@mn about old aircraft, however much the WIX hothouse of our interest might make us believe otherwise.

We must remember that the interest and support for warbirds is a minority one, and the operation of ex-military aircraft by civilians is unlikely to get supported in a plebiscite. I wouldn't invoke 'the will of the people' on this.

I certainly understand and agree you have been appallingly treated in the past on the recovery and ownership issue, and good for you for battling on and winning through. However the private ownership (for pleasure, amusement or commemoration) of warbirds is not vital to the conduct of good government or the development of civilisation in a society.

Naval Aviation history is doomed to destruction due to federal bureaucracy.

I'm sure I saw a large and impressive museum in Pensacola full of remarkable, rare and interesting aircraft. I certainly seem to recall access to a very impressive archive, and had a most interesting meeting with someone who was an official historian for the museum. Should a meteorite manage to take out that bit of Florida, there is a significant naval element in the Smithsonian's NASAM, not to mention a number of other locations around the world.

Let's not overstate our case; it just devalues the legitimate point at base.

"We the people" should control the "government of the people, by the people", not the opposite.

You are my favourite pirate by far, but have you had a close look and listen to the rest of 'the people' lately? As the Duke of Wellington (roughly) said of his own soldiers, "I don't know what effect these men will have upon the enemy, but, by God, they frighten me."

I, for one, have known of this SB2C for many years. The U.S.Navy's position of ownership has done much to prevent sharing knowledge of this, and other crash sites.

And here we are today with a successful recovery, which I think we can all agree is A Good Thing'?

CONGRATS to the recovery crew!

Seconded!

Respectfully, and sub-piratically.

[RickH]

I don't think you'll ever see one restored to flying
condition. Liability just won't let it happen.

With all due respect Owen, this statement is incorrect, I offer these two examples. There are many more but these two are the highest profile examples flying. They were both released intact from excess stock, they were not hard fought pieced together " junkyard dogs ".



It is up to us to keep pushing to have these bureaucratic decisions reversed, "they are not smarter than us, they do no NOT know what is best for us ". I prefer choose to decide what is best for me and not leave it up to some GS whatever who is protecting his retirement !