EMERGENCY AD, T-6 ATTACH ANGLES

[T-6G Pilot]

Just thought I would share some progress with everyone. I have had my airplane in our shop now for two days. They have about 15 hours into the job and are about halfway complete. I estimate between 10-15 man hours to finish the job, however, this is the first inspection my shop has done so the learning curve is definately there. I think a shop with experience could do the inpection in 20 hours at best, but that's just a guess based on my experience at this point. A couple of lessons so far:

1. Be sure to have a good quality chemical stripper. There was some paint that came off easily but other paint was a bit more difficult.

2. I would start on the lower attach angles first since that is the area of more concern and I believe the area that the failure occured in May.

Hope this helps.

Mike Hogan
N4995P
T-6G

[krlang]

Hey you all,

I was talking to a local T-6 operator/aerobatic performer this afternoon and he is currently having his airplane inspected so he can fly in the airshow at Quonset this weekend. Barring any "Fatigue Cracks" he should have it back on friday, ready to work the weekend. Good Luck to him!

As for the discussion about the AD, there are alot of situations out there that 1 incident has caused a whole bunch of expense for others in the direction saftey. As for this one, if it never happens again fantastic if it happens again, revise it to Fix It!
I have watched the T-34 thing, I have seen the Zlin wing AD which was caused by a pilot doing something that he wasnt supposed to and had a wing separate from the A/C. I have seen the requirements that the FAA has put on new production aircraft from the Concorde accident. (Cut the tire in 6 places/install explosives/overinflate/explode in wheelwell/look for damage) which created the istallation of a protective ring in the wheel well of a new production aircraft. Then theres the really rediculous thing with a Beechcraft Gust Lock. You have to look at it every year and sign the AD off that it was the correct part number. (4 or 5 fatal accidents turned it into an AD, Nails and other unmarked pins in the yoke on takeoff) That one was a Communique, then a SB, then an AD. Then theres the common sense ADs, Change your paper air filters every year, No Sh*t! Better make it an AD

I have read the bulletin, my Chief Inspector printed a copy and left it on my box the day it came out, it doesnt seem like its a horrible thing for the "peace of mind" if you have to do this every couple of years. (I couldnt remember if it was 200 hours or annually, of just every 200 hrs)

Great post to read, lots of good info and some great discussion. I especially liked the history of the wing design, and the DC-3 connection.

KEEP EM POSTING!

[Old Shep]

All:
Just finished the inspection on my airplane (Harvard II) and the CAF SNJ here in Midland....no cracks, no corrosion on either one. Going back together with new hardware after alodine treatment, Corrosion X, and some zinc chromate. We're breathing easier now.
Time spent per airplane was about 12 hours, including stripping, masking, bolt removal, cleaning, spraying the dye, developer, getting the black light, etc, etc.
Not as much of a pain as I thought it would be, and I feel better about both airplanes.
Bill Coombes

PS...This forum is really informative at times, and other times is a complete waste. I wish we could all use it for information and nothing else.

[Jack Cook]

Bill,
All we need is to keep serious posts on track, informative posts informative and fun post fun. I'm very glad you had a good outcome on your inspections!

[italian harvard]

Bill, u said u stripped the attach angles and then reprimered them, some guys here even painted the attach angles. I wonder why just not applying a a hand of preserving oil? It's easier to remove (doesnt leave all the crap the primer+paint+stripper does..)and gives a great level of protection.

Alex

[John Beyl]

Must be repainted per the AD:

"If no cracks or major defects are found, replace nuts and bolts following directions in paragraphs (11) and (12) of this appendix of this AD, clean angle, and apply a corrosion protectant coating paint (Alodine alone is not acceptable."

[italian harvard]

I see.
I guess it's redundant, but if they say so..

Alex

[John Beyl]

I see.
I guess it's redundant, but if they say so..

Alex

Well, not really. Alodine provides a thin layer of corrosion protection that is susceptable to scatching and buffing away. It certainly does not offer the same corrosion resistance that a well applied continuous layer of paint will.

John

[HarvardIV]

apply a corrosion protectant coating paint (Alodine alone is not acceptable."

The AD is overkill, all you need is to alodine, and then you can take off the attach angle fairing, and check frequently for corrosion.

Last edited by HarvardIV on Fri Jun 17, 2005 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[HarvardIV]

Why do you insist to call this AD overkill?

How do you know it isn't? If it really was, would you be too shy to talk about it?

[HarvardIV]

Because I've had the chance to talk with a # of folks who are doing this AD and they all seem to think its not an overkill

I'm listening, I'm actually listening to you answer my questions.

So, because some folks "seem to think it's not overkill", does that mean it really isn't?

[Scott Rose]

Rob, Chris, You both disagree, fine. Cut out this back and forth crap or I will ban you both. My patience is at an end. Final warning.

[krlang]

KNOCK IT OFF BOTH OF YOU!

This is a big deal to alot of people and it is a great discussion.
But it doesnt have to become an argument all the time.
If you disagree, bite your tongue, and come up with something constructive. All too often the "Hot Heads" of warbirding get like this.
The Escadrille, The NWM, and Im sure there are many other groups that have split up because we cant see the common goal!

BACK TO THE TOPIC!

[Matt Gunsch]

Rohr,
I for one do call the AD overkill, there are parts that are good, but a reoccuring inspection is not needed, other than the visual inspection that they get every annual. I talked to the FAA and pointed out that IMO, there is going to be more damage caused by improper paint removal. I don't know what your background is, but I have been working on Warbirds, mostly T-6s of all types, from the SNJ-2 on, for the last 25+yrs. I go over the attach angles very closely, and the only damage I have found is exfoliation corrosion. I have 4 T-6s waiting for me to do the inspection, so yes I will be doing it, but the FAA is over reacting. When pressed for data, they admitted there was none, Fred, at the FAA did not know much about the type and versions. I think he was just going by, it sounds good, so lets do it. For the first inspections, it is going to be VERY expensive, in labor, paint, paint stripper, and all the planes I am inspecting are getting all new hardware, not just the nuts, but everything.

The FAA is not always right, and I have more than one AD that is pure BS, and is there because it sounds good, and there are more than a few inspectors that don't know what they are doing, and get by because it sounds good, an example, I was dealing with a inspector in charge of a AD, with a 5 yr reoccuring clause, he said that 5 yrs was too long and he wanted it to be only 3yrs, since that was the SHELF life of the glue, note, the SHELF life, not the service life. This yahoo had no idea of what the glue did in service, but wanted to go by the shelf life of it. But he is the FAA and he knows what is best.

I am chief inspector of the shop where I work, I average 30+ annuals a yr, have 6 planes of our fleet on progressive, and also take care of a collection of Warbirds for a new museum, and deal with the FAA alot, and am on very good terms with my local FSDO, and I have gotten in very heated talks with them, and most of them, I win.

Matt Gunsch,
A&P,IA,Private Pilot
Crew Chief of TBM-3E, DC-3C, B-25J, PBY-5a, C-1A, T-28, T-6, PT-17
Riding member of the
2003 world champion drill team
Arizona Precision Motorcycle Drill Team

[snj-5]

As was pointed out by others, Alodine is very soft and
susceptible to damage. I woud no sooner alodine something
and leave it bare, than I would strip something (without
polishing skins, etc.) and leave it bare.

Alodine was designed (decades ago) to give the paints being
used at the time something to cling to (namely, nitrocellulose-based
lacquers). Modern (two-part) epoxy primers largely alleviate
the requirement/need to use alodine prior to prime. A properly cleaned
(etched) piece of aluminum sprayed with a quality two-part (BMS10-11,
etc.) epoxy primer will out-last all of us.

Bela P. Havasreti