Warbird Information Exchange

When I click on Art and Posters at CAF's webpage gift shop, they're all pretty much out of stock. And all are pricey and not going to sell to anyone in a lower income brack (ie younger people).
If you guys want to open up your world to the next generation as you claim, and you want to actually bring some money in, why the hell aren't you getting Eric or someone to take some decent photos of them, print some darn posters, and hawk them at airshows and online? One poster of each CAF bird, 24x36, would certainly be within reach. Don't just push them on your sites. Push them to distributers who would then push them into art galleries.

And nose art. What the hell is wrong with you guys? ou should be putting nose art on the back of Tshirts, with CAF over the breast pocket. And make posters of Nose Art as well as your warbirds.

Every time I go to your site to look for goodies, I see the same thing: Overly expensive cups, clocks, calendars, and tie pins. What about clipping 24x36 sections of riveted aluminum and printing nose art on them? Screw your clocks, THAT would make a great mantle hanger!
Screensavers, Backgrounds and working with the Motion Picture Industry to tie some of your stuff into movies, and then release action figures and toy airplanes would be killer. Mattel does it every day, and I am just not seeing any of this stuff donw.

Am I crazy, or stupid? Why isn't this stuff being done? Convice Mattel that it would be a good seller and THEY'LL pay for it

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"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

This entire discussion is a textbook perfect example of and confirms my theory that it would be infinitely easier to attempt to shoot tournament pool on ESPN TV using a piece of rope for a cue stick than to get any two or more people to agree on any CAF related issue. Jesus, his ownself, would throw a cuss fit trying to make sense out of this mess and I'm not sure he will live long enough to do it anyway. It's like "Herding cats". All of the suggestions in this entire online discussion have been made before. There is absolutely nothing new here.

All joking aside, good luck to the new management.

Now back to the joking. If I don't laugh about it I get depressed. It would be easier to stuff three feet of wet string up a wildcat's ass than to fix what's wrong with the CAF. Jerry Jeff Walker once sang a song that is appropoe in this situation. It was called"Piss'in in the Wind" and related to proven NASA wind tunnel data documenting that boundary layer seperation and simultaneous urination in any direction results in a random pattern of impact saturation that basically covers everything and everyone until either the wind or the piss'in ceases. Properly placed vortex generators might solve the problem, but their placement would just be cause for another never ending ridiculous disagreement. Remember, for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Every positive action will be counteracted with a negative action. No good deed goes uncriticised.

To be continued.......

B29Driver wrote:


Well, since you've heard it all before...I'm sure you have heard this as well. "IF YOU"RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU"RE PART OF THE PROBLEM"!

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

I guess this is one of the good and important disscussions I made! But remember everybody that nobodys bashing the C.A.F.. I'd like to think these are all more of a brainstorm session. Who knows?

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Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

Well, since you've heard it all before...I'm sure you have heard this as well. "IF YOU"RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, YOU"RE PART OF THE PROBLEM"![/quote]

I REALLY DID TRY VERY HARD TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION. I SINCERELY HOPE THAT YOU HAVE BETTER LUCK THAN I DID.

B29Driver wrote:



I was just kidding with you. I make no claim to have been made any great effort to solve the CAFs problems, other than think about it alot. I've have been spending most of my time flying and managing my airplanes, but I do think that I've learned much about what it takes to run a succesful operation. The obvious difference is, I do it with my own funds and employees, much more difficult with volunteers, to say the least.

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

If B29Driver is who I'm pretty sure he is, then I can attest that he busted his ever-lovin' hump trying to herd a bunch of hidebound ole cats. He's not the only one who's doing that within the CAF, and I can sure understand the burnt-out feeling after you've beaten your head against the wall for a long time with not much to show for it but a headache.

Having said that, I agree with the comments, mostly. Eric Friedbach's comments are especially pertinent since the one thing most Units (and I say MOST meaning to EXCLUDE certain of the more hidebound GOB Units) have is "flexibility". We need that in order to actually negotiate with the multitude of smaller airshows to get the chance to put our aircraft and our selves in front of the people...to spend hours on a hot ramp baking our brains out to sell a pitiful few trinkets and dogtags. Lots of times, the exposure to folks who had no idea that there was a CAF unit East of Texas is well worth negotiating the fee, or number of rooms, or what-have-you.

Without knocking the good job the HQ folks do, I sincerely doubt that a centralized "Airshow Desk" would have that kind of flexibility for ~100 planes. Sounds like a logistical CF to me even if it was do-able.

I believe in the mission of the CAF, and I love these ole hunks of aluminum to a degree that has bordered on obsessive...

_________________
Regards,

Jase
www.b26marauder.com
"I'm having a BLAST!!" 2007 CAF Wing Staff Conference

RIP Gary Austin..always in our hearts

Then Welcome home!

_________________
Keep Em' Flying,
Christopher Soltis
Dedicated to the preservation and education of The Sikorsky Memorial Airport

CASC Blog Page: http://ctair-space.blogspot.com/
Warbird Wear: https://www.redbubble.com/people/warbirdwear/shop

Chicks Dig Warbirds.......right?

As everyone knows I am a huge supporter of both static and flying museums. I do the NMUSAF and kalamazoo Air Zoo thing, and then though to put my money where my mouth is and start supporting a flying museums as well. I became a CAF member and Planes of Fame member. The CAF Wing here in Pittsburgh is small, but a really great group of people. My only complaint is that I work an odd schedule and do not get to spend as much time with them as I would like to. I think the CAF is an important part of keeping them flying.

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Chris Henry
EAA Aviation Museum Manager

I can attest to the fact that B-29 driver did in fact try to be part of the solution, and he got bashed like you would not believe. I have tremendous respect for the man, and was very upset to see him treated the way he was. I had high hopes when he took the reigns of the squadron, only to see that the 90% that do nothing bash him! I am sorry if anyone thinks I am stepping on toes, but I have been part of the CAF for a number of years now, and involved in a number of squadrons, and constantly see a minority do a majority of the work, while the majority just complain. I would like to be able to participate more, and when I lived closer I did, now I just do what I can when I can.
It should be interesting to see how things progress with a new CAF director, who I have heard good things about from several well connected individuals.

Rant Off

Here are a couple of ideas that might be fairly easy to implement (some of these and others I have submitted to HQ in the past, but I never heard back any response):

1) Somebody had made the comment about traveling to the museum and being disappointed about not seeing all of our aircraft. One way to eliminate any possible confusion about what aircraft are currently in the museum is to post it on the website. The aircraft rotate out of the museum every quarter and it is known well in advance which aircraft are slated to be in there unless of course something pops up (mechanical or another commitment) to prevent it from coming there. You could actually post on the website say a year out advertising what plans will be there.

2) In regards to HQ doing aircraft scheduling, that is an extremely bad idea due to the reasons that have been stated by Eric F. and Jase so I won't go into that BUT is what can be done is set something up on the website so that if an airshow promoter went to HQ's website that can go to a certain page and say pull up a map that is devided in say 4-5 regions, click on that region and it will pull up all the flyable aircraft in that region with a specific point of contact for each flyable aircraft and possibly the basic requirements for each aircraft.

3) Eric D. I delieve is right on the mark with his idea of themed groups. A guy in Richmond, VA had attempted this about 2 years ago but I believe he ran into conflict with various groups and ended up being railroaded out of the group he was with. There are so many variations on themes and with the variety of aircraft in different regions, I believe airshow promoters would jump at the idea of only having to deal with say one or two people instead of say twenty differnet people to fill his ramp with warbirds even if it cost a little extra. Speaking as a current Ops Officer with the CAF, I would have no problem with this program because I feel it would open up more shows and even possibly increase our income due to us being a more specialized group instead of as an individual.

These are just some thoughts, but they are doable if you could get everybody on the same page. If the CAF is to survive another 50 years the mentallity of the group needs to change from an individual mentallity to a group mentallity. This can only come from the top and work down. Somebody else made the comment that the "good ole boy" club mentallity is gone in the CAF, I am sorry but from what I have seen with the events over the past 2 years it is still there.

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Col Craig Duck
Life Member CAF
Life Member YAF
Life Member EAA

A short reply this time from someone "in the trenches" at CAF world.... First, Charlie, I appreciated your efforts: I wish you would come back and be more active (and your colorful analogies are most appropriate!). Second, Craig, your comment about the good ole boys club is certainly not the experience I've had: the Valley Flying Club does not exist as it once did. Also, I would disagree with some of your comments about HQ serving as the focal point for airshow planners to go to....It makes perfect sense (the Air Force uses one guy to do all scheduling for AF assets that appear at shows, except for the T-birds)...A "detailer" for the CAF fleet would help. Re: the website, we are working to incorporate many of the things that have been brought up here, from gift shop items to more informative stuff about the airplanes. The idea of publishing a schedule of when airplanes will appear at HQ for their required rotation was tried and eliminated when it was shown to be terribly inaccurate (for a variety of reasons, some good, some totally bogus)... Eric, bless you sir! And, FYI, your comments about proficiency and using T-6/B-18 to maintain that are quite in line with what I've been advocating...Jase, I really admire your enthusiasm: glad you are a member....Flyingsailor, you know how the struggle goes: thanks for the support. And, finally, let me say that the new President of the CAF has a huge job in front of him. Patience and a spirit of compromise will help us all get pointed in the right direction. It would also help if all of you who so freely volunteer your opinions would become active members of the CAF and help plot a new course. As for me, I'm trying to get a Long Range Plan adopted so at least some sumbitch somewhere can say "well, at least I know where that guy wants to take us!"

Keep the faith.

Old Shep

also. now that we're bitching...Not ONCE have I been offered a mint julip at a CAF event. Not ONCE.

(I'm just sayin)

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Muddy Boots wrote:



They probably would have, if you weren't hanging around their PX and trash talkin' the quality of their posters.

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Eric

"I spent most of my money on alcohol, women and skyraiders....and the rest of it I just wasted."

I think this thread should be required reading for all warbird museums. Lots of good info and ideas here. Keep the ideas flowing and something will eventually be picked up and put into use.