Warbird Information Exchange

Does that offer apply to me as well? .... I'd love to stop by someday, I've got a project going on in the Chino hills soon. The thought of getting my hands dirty on a weekend sometime and learning some new things, especially with someone's warbird would be interesting. I also find this thread to be very interesting as well, I have a few people working for me as well and I can understand the well stated points about losing money from untrained people. My people need to be ready to go when their hired ... I have no time to train them on the job ...

Who uses the social security system, all the legal aliens that are allowed to come to this country that is who is using it. If you can't speak english you are legally DISABLED and can collect social security. What ya need to do is work in a bank or grocery store and see how many non americans are ridding us of our retirement. Oh and if you don't believe me about that disability deal just go to your local SS office and find out for your self.
Oh and don't forget about all the illegals that get to use SS as well for free medical at what ever hospital.

WOW, What a thread. I feel so fortunate to have my three grandsons, (born in 89, 90 and 92) being so successful so far in their lives. All Eagle scouts, One just graduated from the year long Marine's avionics maintenance course in Pensacola, now assigned to Miramar. Another holding down two jobs while going to college and the third will graduate from high school this summer and is already involved in a helicopter training program.

Been following this thread with interest and have made a couple of observations.
1) Common denominator is the lamenting of "old school instructional quaility" coupled with the percieved view that up and comeing a/c techs will not be valued once cleared for employment.

2) Generational conflict is a very real procces that will be the cause of workplace dissention and in many places often increases in magnatude.

The current trend of universal unemployment is a cause of concern that one may argue why should I spend vast sums of money on a trade that consumes many hours of training only to be waiting in line for a job that you may not get. In some cases you may be paind more in roading holding a giant lolly pop...

My thinking on these matters are that "The young bull will always want to challange the older bull rightly or wrongly and that the older bull will not always change for the good if at all . This will never stop no matter how progressive the human being gets, it's a fact of life whether we like it or not.

"Old school teaching and core values" will always be in demand although it appears new and better ways are bought into modern thinking. In saying this, I am aware that completion of training, work ethic and the desire to better ones self is a personal and at times a frustrating attitude. The employer has a high standard (or should have) and the employee will have a high standard that he or she will need to demonstrate. This is not always the deseirable outcome for many and it may be that the employer take steps to create and or put into place on going training, conversly the employee take steps outside the work place to higher education. Smaller shops may be able to do this as the bottom line for them and bigger carriers will the dollar value.

At the end of the day it will always be about what YOU want to do with YOUR life and that is something no one will do for you. People will choose to waste their life just as people will do the best and those inbetween.
Are we all going to get along? No, are we always going to agree? No, are we always going to make the same money? No, are we going to make the same mistakes? most likely and finaly are we going to effect a change in the way we go about our daily lives? ....

Dennis

Totally uninformed. Totally wrong, and totally ignoring the fact tat at most there 12 million illegals in the united states,most of whom are recieveing benefits. Over 90% of those over retirement age are recieving benefits. . Here are the REAL figures.

In 2000 there were 65 million people recieveing social security due to age (62 or older). You are also wrong about how illeglas recieve benefits. If we cut off every single illegal from every single US benefit, ithe SS system would still be based on a smaller number of payers than the number of payees. The system is in trouble because those born in the 50's and 60's didn't plan on a retirement, and depend on SS as their primary means of income.

You can also look at the VA as a good example of the older generation sucking the system dry and screwing it up for the younger generation. 85% of the VA system goes to taking care of vietnam and older people. Only 15% of the system is directed towards people like me, Panama era, and younger. And yet, far mor ethan 15% of veterans are Panama and younger. Why? The older WWII, Korea and Vietnam Vets have more power? Why? been tehre longer. Also, more moeny isspent on them keeping them alive due to age related issues, and smoking related issues , and overeating related issues.

I'm not saying all this is bad. Just that to claim the younger people in America aren't doing enough or are lazy is a flat out lie. And to ignore how much they really do to take care of the older generations and to complain about them is just...well, I I guess it's just par for the course.

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

MB,

Step easy please, you are twisting this thread from what was a pretty accurate discussion about future mechanics as viewed by those of us who actually teach future mechanics, as opposed to the outside the tent views of a sniper, into a pretty serious political rant about eveyone else except you being a drag on society and sucking the earth dry
Please take that form of political bovine byproduct to some other narrow minded based forum, and while you are ranting and foaming at the mouth about the 'over 50's' if you are under 50 please shoot yourself @ age 49 so you don't become another drag on society.
Can we now return this thread to where and what it was?

micro rant done now-

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Being an A&P and a Director of Maintenance for a 91 flight department, I'll chime in here. In the 20+ years I have been involved in aviation, it comes down to two things: Knowlege and Passion. I've worked with some incredibly smart A&P's who have no passion about what they do. And, I've worked with some very passionate people who should never have tools in their hands. I have received resumes in the mail that read quite impressively, i.e. tons of technical and aircraft specific training, but when interviewed, or inevitably hired, they show no passion about their work. It is just a job. I am 40 years old and I still love what I do. I love the smell, the sounds, and the environment I work in. I still run outside if I hear a radial engine or the scream of a vintage turbojet.

You can train the knowelege to some degree, but the skills to be a good A&P are not only inherent, but take years to develop. The passion has to love aviation and take great pride in what you do has to be already there.

AT-6newbie,

Welcome to the fur ball! If you've been watching it from the bench for a while you know how we all operate.
Your levelheaded first post shows that you know your stuff and I at least welcome you aboard!

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

a) you're totally missing what I am saying

b) when you claim that all of us "young un's" are lazy toads "except for a few uber mensch" you drag me into the subject, because you are no longer talking about A&P, you are talking about youth today.

c) My point isn't that old people suck. It's that old people are just as likely to be useless retards as young people--as evidenced in this forum and in this thread, and, well, by your comment that I should shoot myself.

I'd suggest that instead of wailing about young people today you should perhaps be talking about how the people doing the recruiting today are allowing the wrong people into your classes (usually to fulfill paperwork demands as well as to justify having the class in the first place), and how your classes are not properly presented, and how they could be improved. Is all of the red tape and BS necessary? Is there an actual profit to be made by a kid getting your paper on his wall? Will he actually walk away knowing anything (not likely by what I have read so far.) I'm sure your favorite students are able to jump thirty five feet in the air, sleep two hours a week, have sixteen perfect children and a wife who can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch, but if you can't handle the drones, you maybe should consider a new field. Or look for that handgun in your desk drawer before you inflict more of your cynical attitude on any more kids who enter your class hoping for a chance to do something with their lives, and end up wishing they had gone to cooking school instead. At least there they get to play with knifes and don't spend the day reading a book when they should be getting their hands dirty. XoXoXo


AT-6--well said. I know plenty of people who have no passion but get the job done....sort of. And I know people who have loads of passion but couldn't hit the side of a barn. The guys with both the passion and the skill are invariably people who had their passion cultivated and shared by others who also felt it.

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Sounds like you raised some good kids there. And made sure they had something good to pass on to theirs. Good on ya!

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."

Is muddy boots talking about the Cleaners and Cabin Mechs? Who could forget the seat cushion testers ( No, I 'm not kidding there is such a JOB ).

No, you're wrong. Reading your railing against older people and the entire system is way, way off the track of this thread.
If you are NOT actively engaged in the instruction of aircraft mechanics and donot have anything more than a political jab in the ribs about how the rest of society is slowly bleeding you to death and that you seem to harbor excessive bitterness over the events of earlier last month to add to this discussion-please do the rest of us a favor and PUT A SOCK IN IT!!
Otherwise, I will request that this, up till now calm and common sense discussion be locked-

_________________
Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Oh, and what we are all 'wailing about' is the fact that if you personally screw up at work, your company loses a few bucks, when the people we train to do a very intricate and important job screw up a great number of people die due to laziness and stupidity.
This is about a bit more that Plato's lament. If you feel the need, I'm very sure that a great number of people on the board can and gladly will give you the names of numerous carriers that they wouldn't book their ex wives on because of slipshod (or no) maintenance practices-the aim of this thread is to promote very long lives for the non knowing innocents who get on an airplane every day without thinking-we are talking about passion for what you do and the desire and need to do your absolute best each and every time you do a task, not once every 6 or 7 times, or twice a month, EVERY TIME with no exceptions. If that prime idea escapes your concious mind then I donot and will not knowingly ride on any aircraft you have worked on, and I've ridden on some junk in my life-

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Don't make me go get my flying monkeys-

Mr Inspector thanks for the stuff. I sent you a PM.. Consider the source and forget about it.. I would hate to see you get hot under the collar and leave wix. You are a great refrence. I always gravatated to the oldest and talanted mechanics. I only wish you were here on the east coast.

Like I said. It's not the welfare system--it's being supported by the kids being whined about. It's not the students because kids immemorial have not changed one bit, nor have human beings. Human beings learn almost every single thing they do and human beings with issues LEARN THEM(including how to have sex according to scientists) So where is the REAL problem?

The teachers (including the school system). You can't fix what they learned as children from moronic parents. You can't change how they are when they walk in the doors of your classroom. And if you aren't looking at how you can make sure they walk out the doors of your classroom prepared to do their jobs, you're failing. Not them.

Not sure how you keep missing the systemic failure, there. But you DO seem to be obsessed with some political thing or other, and I am not talking about politics. I'm simply pointing out that unless you start recruiting you own students, you cannot change the material you have to work with one bit. And thus, Inspector, you have two choices: Kill yourself before you ruin any more students with you inability to see reality, or change the presentation of what you are teaching as much as you can to correct for systemic failure (ie bad recruiting and stupid red tape) and weak material (students who either don't care or lose the fire once they walk into your classroom)

What I was taught was that some will never get it. Abandon them to their failure. Some walk in brilliant and on fire and you can smile and use them to save the ones in the middle: The ones who are smart enough to get it, but need someone to instill the same fire and obsession YOU have.

Oh, and while you're doing that, find a way to rebuild the system so that decent students are recruited in the first place, while accepting that it won't ever change no matter how hard you try. Best you'll get by taht is the chance to grab one or two wins in a lifetime of being ignored.


As an instructor it is YOUR JOB to weed out the lame the blind and the weak witted so that they can't kill people.
In what way is that political?

_________________
"I knew the jig was up when I saw the P-51D-20-NA Mustang blue-nosed bastards from Bodney, and by the way the blue was more of a royal blue than an indigo and the inner landing gear interiors were NOT green, over Berlin."