Swamp Ghost has been sold and should be come to.........

chasd25 · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:02 pm

Swamp Ghost stalled

THE Government has moved to stop the export of the wreck of a World War II B17E bomber from Northern Province through Lae. Acting Prime Minister Sir Moi Avei, announced last night the Government would review the decision by the National Museum and Art Gallery Board of Trustees to approve the shipment of the aircraft. Earlier, the Public Accounts Committee also ordered the relic be detained pending a public inquiry on July 1. Acting Prime Minister, Sir Moi Avei announced last night that the Government will review the decision by the National Museum and Art Gallery Board of Trustees to approve the shipment from Papua New Guinea of a WWII B17E bomber aircraft. This followed media reports yesterday that the aircraft, nicknamed “Swamp Ghost”, had been removed from its resting place in a dry swamp-bed in the Northern Province for 64 years. The bomber has remained largely intact, having crash landed in the lake after running out of fuel while returning from a bombing operation to Rabaul during the war. Earlier yesterday, the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), which investigates use of public money and property, ordered the Internal Revenue Commissioner David Sode to have customs officers stop the plane from being shipped to the United States from Lae where it wings have been dismantled. Sir Moi said: “Like many Papua New Guineans, I was shocked to learn that Papua New Guinea would lose this very important relic from her World War II past.” He said he had directed the Minister for Culture and Tourism David Basua to use whatever powers available to the Government to suspend the shipment. PAC chairman John Hickey said he was informed of the matter last Friday and ordered an unofficial inquiry with the Museum’s acting director Simon Poraituk on the grounds for the Museum’s board of trustees to have the plane salvaged and restored overseas. “I am alarmed that the plane has been removed,” said Mr Hickey. “I am disappointed with the management of the museum and the National Museum and Art Gallery board of trustees,” he said. Mr Sode has confirmed receiving instructions from PAC and said that the plane would not be given any clearance to be exported. Mr Sode said PAC would be conducting their investigation and they (IRC) would be doing their own investigation, as was their normal routine before a permit was given.

setter · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:11 pm

Bugger!!!!!
What I said - get it out quick or you are dead meat - see earlier efforts with p38s et al - The "Public Service Sic ' such as it is will bury this in bull now - this could drag on for years - shades of a certain Lybian B24 still in Tobruk....
John P

m50a1ontos · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:14 pm

Yeah...they drag on and on and she sits in a heavy salt envorinment. "They" won't HAVE an airplane....just a pile of aluminum oxide, heavy emphisis on the "oxide" part

groundpounder · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:29 pm

ok first things first; EXCELLENT photos of the recovery!!!!!!!!! thankyou so much for posting them! now please excuse my ignorance on this matter but just why is it that this aircraft is at all the property of png? they didnt design build or fly these planes. in fact werent the boys from america over there saving their butts in the first place?? this sudden about face of the png government just stinks of opportunism imho. this plane has been ignored for so many years by the png government and now that it has been successfully recovered in better shape than anyone could have expected these cats are seeing dollar signs. or a darn good opportunity for a bit of extortion. this latest twist stinks to high heaven and its a darn shame. this plane was american built owned and operated as well as recovered. all the people of png have done with it as far as i can tell is exploit it for whatever monetary gain they could. if it means so much to them and it is such a treasure, where have they been all of these years while their irreplaceable icon has been rotting away?? now that the hard work has been done and the risk of capital investment has been borne by someone else now its their baby and its not going anywhere!?! maybe these clowns could weave it some new wings from some coconut leaves. sorry but sugar like this really pisses me off!!!! hopefully the story gets better really soon, and this AMERICAN treasure can be returned to where it belongs. im gonna go have a beer.......................... sim.

Shay · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:45 pm

Jase

Thanks for the great pics but when i try to select the thumbnails I get an error message saying I need to be invited. I was wondering if you could fix this problem.

Pretty please?

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:56 pm

So close. Lets hope that it still gets out!

Tim

Its a bit funny but I can't access the Webshots page due to high traffic. I'm dieing to see the shots.

Jase · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 9:35 pm

Webshots page is down due to high traffic. Hopefully it'll be back up, or I can get permission to host the pics elsewhere.

I really appreciate the responsible comments, and the total lack of armchair QB's.

Hopefully the PNG govt will not queer the deal for the folks who were behind the recovery.

B-29 Super Fort · **Joined:** Wed Sep 01, 2004 11:12 am **Posts:** 871

I applaude the effort to get her out of the swamp, now let's hope the png gov't doesn't block its return to the US.

setter · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 10:26 pm

Hi Guys

Well this is nothing out of the ordinary for PNG and will get worked over no doubt - would say 50/50 chance.

Depends who and why it was made an issue of and what the agenda for doing so was. Probably best left up to damage control by the recovery team and less comments on here the better till it's done.

One thing I would say though is that the pics show it being loaded on a boat for the trip to Lae so why did it stop there....................If I had it on a ship................Easy pop to have from this distance I suppose and i don't know what the circumstances were obviously but when it's on the water....

regards
John P

Shay · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 10:29 pm

Just came across this:

http://www.thenational.com.pg/052406/nation1.htm

Quote:

Government grounds swamp ghost

RELEVANT government agencies, including the Internal Revenue Commission, have been directed by the government to prevent the shipment of a war relic, a World War II fighter aircraft, to the United States.
Acting Prime Minister Sir Moi Avei announced yesterday that the national government would review the decision by the National Museum and Art Gallary board of trustees to approve the shipment of the B-17 E Boeing bomber, dubbed the swamp ghost to the US.
In a statement released yesterday following revelations by the media about the shipment of the war relic out of Popondetta, where it had been resting in the Agaiembo Lake since 1942, Sir Moi said: “Like many Papua New Guineans, I was shocked to learn that PNG would lose this very important relic from PNG’s World War II past.”
The acting PM said his office was yesterday inundated by phone calls from concerned citizens following the media coverage on the salvage operation.
He said he was very surprised that such an important matter had not been brought to the attention of the national executive council well before the salvage operation was granted approval.
Sir Moi said he had directed the Minister for Culture and Tourism David Basua to use whatever powers available to suspend the shipment of the aircraft, until the issue had been considered in full by the government.
“I have directed the minister to prepare a detailed briefing paper on the matter, and to explain why the National Museum and Art Gallery approved the salvaging and shipment of the aircraft.”
He added that the government would also closely examine the legal basis behind the decision.
He said the aircraft was a very important historical relic for PNG and it would add to the country’s World War II memorabilia that attracts thousands of visitors to the country every year.
He said in this regard, he found it very difficult to comprehend the decision by government authorities to allow the war relic’s shipment to the United States.
The acting PM acknowledged that his decision would cause concern for the US-based salvaging group, but added that he was acting in the national interest and the public expected the decision to be reviewed by the government.
Sir Moi said in accordance with his decision, the director of the national museum had instructed relevant government authorities, such as the Internal Revenue Commission, to prevent shipment of the aircraft.

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

Shay · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 10:37 pm

And Another with a familiar name:

http://www.thenational.com.pg/052406/nation3.htm

Quote:

PM must intervene: Jojoga

By JULIA DAIA BORE
LANDOWNERS from the Agaiembo Lake area have called on Prime Minister Sir Michael Somare to intervene and stop the shipment of the Swamp Ghost to the United States.
The Swamp Ghost refers to the remains of a Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress bomber that was shot down over the Musa area of Northern province in 1942 after carrying out a raid on a Japanese base in Rabaul, East New Britain province, as it was heading back to Townsville in Australia.
All nine crew members of the plane reportedly survived the crash and made it back to safety after crossing the Kokoda Track.
Karaisa landowners representative Willington Jojoga said the relic rightfully belonged to Papua New Guinea.
“Under no circumstances should any foreigner be allowed to have it removed and taken out of the country,” Mr Jojoga, a former UPNG academic and PNG historian, said yesterday.
He said the whole issue on the B-17 E Boeing 41-2246 bomber should not have been allowed to have advanced this far.
According to available documents and reports, Mr Jojoga said there were three different American groups interested in the Swamp Ghost, beginning in 1980.
One group was led by a Bob Gonzales from the Travis Air force Base Historical Society, who dealt with a senior officer at the war museum.
The Military Aircraft Restoration Corporation (MARC) group was the second, although its members did not clearly identify themselves and initially said all they wanted was to make a documentary movie based on the recollections of the two remaining crew members still alive today.
The documentary, they had said, would involve the local people.
This group was led by a Fred Hagen which dealt directly with a senior officer at the National Museum and Art Gallery.
From this deal came a payment of about US$100,000 (K301,000) in June 1999.
It was at this time that former PNG ambassador to the US Sir Nagora Bogan became aware of what was going on and ordered an investigation. Washington-based diplomat Graham Michael was assigned the job in 2000, which resulted in the suspension of the travel plans by the Americans to PNG.
Sir Nagora yesterday confirmed the investigation, adding that everything was put on hold because the embassy wanted to establish with local landowners and PNG authorities the claims made by the foreigners.
Mr Michael had also written to PNG authorities advising against proceeding with anything until all was properly established.
He also advised that the passports of Mr Hagen and his colleagues had been withheld by the PNG embassy in Washington DC.
On May 5 this year, 28-year-old Justin Taylan and his group from New York also came out publicly in the media expressing their interest in the Swamp Ghost.
“Now, it’s quite shocking,” Mr Jojoga said.
“Only the PM can stop this; it seemed that all other parties have an interest in the matter.”

Shay
____________
Semper Fortis

setter · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 11:22 pm

Just to show how PNG works sometimes here is what happened with a previous siezure of a p38 bound for the USA

42-66841

Type: L422 Lightning P-38H-5-LO
Msn: 1352
Previous Identities:

Nil

Owner: Bob Jarrett.
Base: Classic Jets Fighter Museum, Adelaide SA.
History:

20SEP43 Belly landed near Brahmin, 40 miles inland from Madang, PNG. Props sheared off and engines dislodged. Aircraft was lifted on to 44 gallon drums and abandoned.
92 Aircraft moved to Nadzab.
92 Recovered for shipment to the U.S. but seized by the PNG Government.
01MAY99 Departed Lae, PNG on the "Island Chief".
17MAY99 Arrived Adelaide on the MSC "Antwerp" having been transhipped at Melbourne.
21MAY99 Fuselage transported to Parafield.
27MAY99 Boom transported to Parafield.
After arrival in Australia, the aeroplane was reported to be P-38E 42-2039. This identification resulted from the discovery on the airframe of a part number which was initially believed to be a serial number consistent with that of a P-38E. Closer examination by Bob Jarrett has revealed that the aeroplane is in fact a P-38H. The serial 42-66841 has been found stamped on a bulkhead and etched into one of the fins. The aeroplane has also been reported as 42-66851 but its identity is now confirmed to be 42-66841.
AUG01 The following update was received from Bob Jarrett:
The P-38 is moving along well, the nose is essentially finished. The cockpit capsule is off the wing and stripped and cleaned. The floor is under repair, starboard wing is off and the upper and lower vertical fin frames are rebuilt and await skinning. The eight fin root fairings are nearly finished.
22APR04 The following update was received from Bob Jarrett:
At this time both new aileron frames are ready for skinning and the last lower skin is ready to be cut for the port wing and fitted. We have removed the starboard wing leading edge and are now cutting out the propeller hit damage to work out a repair scheme. The wing is in a jig and last Friday the wing trailing edge into which the flap locates was removed for replacement after frames cleanup and painting. The mangled starboard oil coolers air intake covering has been straightened but there is a lot of work to be done on this component yet. The port turbo and exhaust system is finished and the starboard turbo shrouds are being fabricated now. Two of the guys have nearly finished rebuilding the starboard oil cooler exhaust duct assembly. The other job on the go just now is that one of the guys has commenced constructing a complete set of ammo canisters and travel chutes. That job will take quite some time to complete.
12JAN05 The following update was received from Bob Jarrett:
The starboard wing is over half completed and new main undercarriage doors are coming along well. The new pilot's seat is ready for painting and two port engine cowls are close to finished, only fourteen to go. We still need a sample spinner cone.
19OCT05 The following update was received from Bob Jarrett:
The aircraft was fitted with its wheels and tyres on this day.
02APR06 The aircraft was rolled out of the CJFM hangar for the Annual Antique and Classic Aircraft Fly-in and Spectacular. Bob Jarrett estimates that there is another six months work to complete the aircraft. The CJFM newsletter reports that: "The two cockpit perspexes still remain to be completed along with one more starboard inner engine cover. Work has commenced on the port cockpit to centre wing fairing and the nose wheel bay systems fit out."

all this was sourced and is duly acknowledged to have come from a fantastic resource called the lockheed file http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/lock1.htm

Regards
John p

DaveM2 · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 11:48 pm

Photo in todays newspaper shows it on the dock. Hopefully they are allowed to proceed in the preparation for shipping whilst the BS is sorted.

Dave

setter · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 12:01 am

Rob and Dave

Ah politics a wonderful thing - as i read it the aircraft is now at Lae?

John p

Mark_Pilkington · **Posted:** Wed May 24, 2006 2:43 am

More problems for Swamp Ghost?? and future PNG recoveries??

The story posted above regarding the PNG Government intervention into the Swamp Ghost Export is front page news in the PNG Post Carrier, but unfortunately I cant lift a clear copy of the new photo from their thumbnail front page, which shows the recovered fuselage from another aspect.

However of greater concern is the local media attitude? as the same edition carries the following Editorial in the local PNG Press:

Quote:

Leave our war relics alone

WE condemn in the most strongest terms the removal of our war relics under the disguise of preserving them in foreign countries. World War II was fought on our soil and those who died and the remains of their war machines must remain in Papua New Guinea. Foreigners who want to see the relics or pay respects to the war dead should be given all the encouragement to visit this country and do so. But, to allow anyone to remove anything such as the Oro “Swamp Ghost” and move it to the United States is a total disrespect for the war dead. It also removes a historical link between the people of Oro and those who came and fought on Oro land. The place will become a desert of no interest to tourists. Yet, this is what we are promoting! What a shame. The National Museum is being utterly irresponsible in allowing the removal of important war relics from PNG without fully understanding the full implications on tourism to the country. We call for a total stop to all future removals of war relics from this country. We have lost far too many priceless pieces of war relics to foreigners who now sit back and enjoy their new treasures at the expense of the simple PNG villagers. No tourist will ever venture into the swamp left behind by the B17E. It is no longer there, thanks to the National Museum and Art Gallery. It claims to be acting under the authority of its own Act in giving the green light for the removal of this war aircraft. We say the museum has been misguided and it has acted in a way that does not serve the best interests of PNG. What is it that in this country while one arm of the government is trying to promote tourism — encouraging foreign visitors to visit PNG and see the unique and diverse cultures of this land, including the war relics — another arm of government is encouraging foreigners to remove these attractive features of our country. We cannot bring in more visitors if government agencies are not working together in unison and ensuring that they co-operate with each other to do what is best for the people of this country. The National Museum needs to rethink the way it is encouraging the removal of war relics from PNG. It must take a different approach and ensure whatever is still there in the jungles, are preserved and left as they are. Then tell the world to come and see for themselves.

http://www.postcourier.com.pg/20060524/wehome.htm

This seems to be a follow on from a News Item in the same newpaper (from the same website as well) earlier in May this year with similar views:

Quote:

News

Weekend Edition Fri - Mon May 05th - 07th , 2006

Dispute over Ghost Swamp

A dispute has arisen between the National Museum and an American tourist over the salvaging of an American World War II plane that crashed in a swamp in Oro Province. The dispute began when 28-year-old New Yorker Justin Taylan provided information on a feature story in the Post-Courier and a video tape aired on EMTV on the American B-17 bomber aircraft nicknamed Ghost Swamp that crashed at Agiambo Swamp. Mr Taylan was keen to promote tourism in Papua New Guinea and urged the Museum to keep war relics, especially the Ghost Swamp intact and in the country. He said the plane was valued at about K15-20 million. He said it was “best to leave the Swamp Ghost in the swamp so it can be visited by tourists. The local people had agree and have established rules and fees for visitors. Mr Taylan said he had raised public awareness about the aircraft’s historical value, dollar value and tourism potential. “The people of PNG must instruct the Government and the museum on these matters,” he said. Mr Taylan’s comments has angered National Museum and Art Gallery acting director Simon Poraituk who said the Museum Board of Trustees had allowed another American, Fred Hagen, to salvage and restore the plane.

I have posted the link to the PNG newspaper above so those interested can monitor news directly but having done so, I had concerns some of the attitudes and comments being made in this forum might be reflected into the local media debate which I think would be unfortunate and counter-productive.

While it is an American aircraft and American heritage is it also PNG Heritage and therefore a sensitive issue for all concerned.

I would recommend those of us who are very "passionate" about this issue try to refrain from arguing their points of view directly into the local media and leave this issue to be resolved by those who have put in the hard effort to recover the aircraft and now have the most to loose?

I think the urge to send letters of concern/support etc or enter the local PNG debate should be held back until the real details of what is really going on? and then perhaps those arguments should be put to the PNG Government or the intended IRC public inquiry?? not the media and general population?

The main issue is the airframe doesnt get left to rot and be vandalised in Lae like the Classic Jets P38!, and that other viable preservations/restorations dont end up being left to rot into the ground?

regards

Mark Pilkington

Warbird Information Exchange

Swamp Ghost has been sold and should be come to.........

Who is online