In May 2005 I posted on the Oklahoma Wreckchasing board (
http://okwreckchasing.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635) the following but only got a couple of responses:
L. Thompson
Registered Member
Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 2
Location: Kellogg, Idaho
Posted: Sat May 14, 2005 4:31 pm
Post subject:
Postwar Oklahoma B-17Fs
Steve Birdsall's book, Pride of Seattle-The Story of the First 300 B-17Fs mentions three B-17Fs that were intended for Service Station (to be called "The Flying Service") use. These three were said to be disassembled and trucked to Oklahoma City:
B-17F 41-24605 KNOCK-OUT DROPPER (the first 8th AF B-17 to complete 50 missions. 303rd BG, 359th BS
B-17F Yankee Doodle Dandy (My note: I assume this was B-17F-45-BO, 42-5264 of the 303rd BG, 358th BS that was at Stillwater with RFC on 24 Sept 1945.)
B-17F 41-24577 HELL'S ANGELS 303rd BG, 358th BS
Birdsall says on page 54, "KNOCK-OUT DROPPER was last reported in April of 1948 near an ice dock near NW 39th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue in Oklahoma City." On page 59 he publishes a photo of it minus wings resting on wooden blocks in Oklahoma City in 1946.
Color plates of HELL'S ANGELS and KNOCK-OUT DROPPER appear on pages 36-37. Text and photos seen between pages 51-59.
Now here is a twist in a story possibly related to these. In 1992 I talked with an exotic and classic automobile broker in Florida on the phone. He was pretty good friends with my boss at the time, another dealer in classic and antique autos. The Florida man (his name in buried in some old file I have I'm sure) said he was contacted in the 70s or early 80s about a fleet of old but very original Army staff cars that were available for sale in rural Oklahoma. He traveled to see them thinking they may be good hire out candidates for Hollywood World War II movies. He reported to me that they were all derelict Dodge or Plymouth 4-door sedans and he guessed their real value to be minimal and not worth the investment on speculation for movie work. He asked the owner if he had anything else of interest and the man said, "I have two old B-17s." The car dealer told me they were parked in a remote field well off the beaten path, and he was allowed to board them and sit in the cockpits. One had an old log book sitting on the seat. He told me he really knew nothing about the vintage aircraft market and assumed they had no value, even though they were fascinating to see and touch. He actually asked me that day on the phone in 1992, "Aren't there hundreds of those old bombers still parked in the desert in Arizona?"
Needless to say in several subsequent conversations I tried to find out as much as I could of these fabled lost B-17s. I was unsuccessful in that quest. The car dealer was very willing to help. He said he kept meticulous files on his car finder work, and marveled that after much searching that he could not find any record of the Oklahoma seller's name, location, or phone.
Now I knew my civil B-17 history well enough to know that aside from a couple of B-17s witnessed by Altus residents in 1946 being trucked away by an unknown buyer, that these two Oklahoma aircraft matched no known surviving B-17s. After arriving at nothing but dead ends I finally put this story away in the Lost Myths and Ones That Got Away file.
One of the only clues the car dealer could remember as to location was that it was in a spot where a new Interstate was to come through. This is why the seller was offering the cars and the airplanes. His property was being sold to make way for the new freeway.
Could it be that these planned Service Station B-17s could have survived another 30 years or so to languish in some remote corner of Oklahoma? One would think they would have been spotted from the air many many years ago and thus be well known.
Today I got thinking, but what if they were stored with wings detached? I can't honestly say that I ever asked the car dealer about that.
Stuff that daydreams are made of right? Stranger things have happened...
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TangoRomeo
Registered Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 7
Location: Enid, OK
Posted: Sun May 15, 2005 12:54 am
L. Thompson wrote:
One of the only clues the car dealer could remember as to location was that it was in a spot where a new Interstate was to come through. This is why the seller was offering the cars and the airplanes. His property was being sold to make way for the new freeway.
Hmmm. I suppose I'm really just thinking out loud more than anything else, but that sounds amazingly like an abandoned private airport named Jane's Pasture. It was located just south of Tinker AFB. When Interstate 240 was built around the south side of Oklahoma City in the late '60s or early '70s, it cut directly across the northern part of the runway. I have a 1974-1975 version of the Directory of Oklahoma Airports and the included aerial photo clearly shows the two sections of the runway. The airport operated in this condition for a time, but appears to be completely abandoned now. A 2002 TerraServer image of the area shows only a faint trace of the south end of the runway, located just east of the small lake.
I worked in the control tower at Tinker in the early '70s, and every once in a while we would have to monitor an operation into or out of the airport, since it was located within our Airport Traffic Area. Looking at the airport through binoculars, one could see what appeared to be numerous vintage automobiles parked on the property. I don't recall seeing anything that looked like a B-17, but if they were disassembled they could have been stored inside the building that was on the property. Anyway, it's a long shot. Just thought I would mention it. Oh yes, the TerraServer image can be seen at http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/im ... Y=9790&W=1. The area is pretty well built up now, but in the early '70s it was still quite rural. Also, I will be happy to email a copy of the 1974 photo if anyone is interested, provided I can get a good scan of it.
I took a version of the story (minus the airplanes) to some vintage military vehicle web sites and experts and they offered some ideas on who the owner of the vehicles may have been. Haven't chased those leads much yet.
I spoke with Scott Thompson once ortwice about it and this was his last correspondence to me about it:
"Thanks for your message. I have heard of these airplanes {my note: the three with identities} and have a few photos of them. I also have tucked away somewhere a column from the Oklahoma City newspaper, probably fifteen years ago, that addresses these airplanes. As I recall (it's not in front of me right now) it indicated the airplanes were later buried when the lot was vacated.
These airplanes came out of Searcy Field (the one Paul Mantz bought) at Stillwater. They were disassembled and trucked to OKC. Reportedly, Bob Sturges saw the one airplane mounted over the gas station and suggested that idea to Art Lacey for his gas station near Portland.
These airplanes were not covered in the updated Final Cut, though they probably should have been. As for the two B-17s in rural Oklahoma, they could be the same airplanes, though I'd think not. They could be off the field at Altus, who knows?
I'll tuck this one away for reflection. I get to Oklahoma quite a bit and it might be worth figuring out what interstates were built in the early 1990s...not many, I'd guess.
If I come up with anything I'll let you know. We can each get a B-17."
My New Years resolution is to go through dozens of big boxes in the basement until I find the name of the Florida car broker again.
Lowell Thompson
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