Warbird Information Exchange

DISCLAIMER: The views expressed on this site are the responsibility of the poster and do not reflect the views of the management.
It is currently Thu Jul 10, 2025 5:25 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Classic Wings Magazine WWII Naval Aviation Research Pacific Luftwaffe Resource Center
When Hollywood Ruled The Skies - Volumes 1 through 4 by Bruce Oriss


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: F-15's vs QF-4's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:03 am 
Offline
WIX Motor Pool Officer
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:56 pm
Posts: 680
Location: Vermont
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xISpZYaj ... ed&search=

_________________
It's you and me against the world.

We attack at dawn.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 10:39 am 
Offline
1000+ Posts!
1000+ Posts!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:52 am
Posts: 1949
Location: Virginia, USA
Check this one out... some of the best air-to-air photography I've ever seen. I know is has probably been posted before, but it really bears repeating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OdQrQRaL0&NR

Cheers,
Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:44 am 
Offline
WIX Motor Pool Officer
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:56 pm
Posts: 680
Location: Vermont
Thanks Richard. I had not seen that one before.

_________________
It's you and me against the world.

We attack at dawn.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:47 am 
Offline
WRG Editor
WRG Editor
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 5614
Location: Somerset, MA & Johnston, RI
Good stuff guys. I put the links up on Warbirds-Online (http://www.warbirds-online.org/) because I liked them so much.

_________________
Scott Rose
Editor-In-Chief/Webmaster
Warbirds Resource Group - Warbird Information Exchange - Warbird Registry

Be civil, be polite, be nice.... or be elsewhere.
-------------------------------------------------------
This site is brought to you with the support of members like you. If you find this site to be of value to you,
consider supporting this forum and the Warbirds Resource Group with a VOLUNTARY subscription
For as little as $2/month you can help ($2 x 12 = $24/year, less than most magazine subscriptions)
So If you like it here, and want to see it grow, consider helping out.


Image

Thanks to everyone who has so generously supported the site. We really do appreciate it.

Follow us on Twitter! @WIXHQ


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:10 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 7501
Location: northern ohio
great footage. incredible the swiss are still operating "relics" such as the f-5 & israeli kfir!!! especially with that country's money!!! but you know what??? they hung in their with the f-18!!! why would the swiss buy the kfir??

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:20 pm 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:44 am
Posts: 3293
Location: Las Vegas, NV
tom d. friedman wrote:
why would the swiss buy the kfir??


Looks like a Mirage to me.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:32 am
Posts: 105
They were indeed Mirage 3, all the remaining operational Swiss ones were retired on 3rd December 2003.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:06 pm 
Offline
Maker of Spiffy models
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:50 pm
Posts: 1883
Location: Montréal
I'd say Mirage 5 since they have canards.

8)

_________________
Olivier Lacombe -- Harvard Mk.4 C-GBQB


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:37 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 7501
Location: northern ohio
kfir... note the canards just to the rear of the nose. the israelis produced the mirage with that modification.

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:32 am
Posts: 105
Mirage 3 :roll:

Switzerland operated Mirage IIICS, IIIS, IIIBS, IIIDS and IIIRS

Most of these aircraft were built locally in Switzerland, many were upgraded with canards, etc.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/AWA1/401-500/walk411_MirageIII_Bob_Verhegghen/walk411.htm

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0503157


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:24 pm 
Offline
BANNED/ACCOUNT SUSPENDED
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 1197
Hey, it looks like something Randy could shoot down! A drone flying straight as a arrow with no weapons. :lol: :butthead:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 9:02 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:43 pm
Posts: 7501
Location: northern ohio
ooohhh randy.... you better get radar lock with that comment!!!

_________________
tom d. friedman - hey!!! those fokkers were messerschmitts!! * without ammunition, the usaf would be just another flying club!!! * better to have piece of mind than piece of tail!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:39 pm 
Offline
Senior Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:22 am
Posts: 3875
Location: DFW Texas
Do they feel remorse for killing such a fine airplane?

Great video but...Makes me kinda sad...

Image

_________________
Zane Adams
There I was at 20,000 ft, upside down and out of ammunition.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Join us for the Texas Warbird Report on WarbirdRadio.com!
Image http://www.facebook.com/WarbirdRadio
Listen at http://www.warbirdradio.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:43 am
Posts: 505
Location: Australia
DISGUSTING shooting down a F-4G sorry Q... criminal that was such a lovely plane sob sob

when will F-22s shoot down QF-16s

i cant wait..

F-16 just dont do it for me..... :P


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:48 am 
Offline
3000+ Post Club
3000+ Post Club
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 11:44 am
Posts: 3293
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Ztex wrote:
Do they feel remorse for killing such a fine airplane?


sabredriver wrote:
DISGUSTING shooting down a F-4G


Remorse?

I'm someone who has an immense sense of, and respect for, the history that these airframes have. However, I also have an equal need for me and my fellow fighter pilots to get the best possible training so as to provide the best possible military force for the United States.

In my book, one outweighs the other significantly.

Here's a repost of my thoughts on the subject from a post in 2005.....

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/p ... 02&start=0

Quote:
As a fighter pilot, we train extensively for weapon employment using electronics and rules-of-thumb to "score" missile and gun hits. This is effective for teaching the mechanics of how to employ weapons against another aircraft, there is simply no substitute for seeing the whole process work in person. The drones are shot down during a program called "Combat Archer", which is designed to test many aspects of weapons, aircraft, and pilots. They take air-to-air missles which have reached the end of their shelf life and remove the actual warhead, replacing it with a telemetry package that transmits guidance and performance information back to a ground station.

Then, they invite front-line fighter units to Tyndall AFB, who bring combat operational aircraft and pilots to shoot the missiles. This exercises and tests the pilots' ability to operate the weapons systems. It exercises and tests the aircrafts' ability to carry, target, and shoot an actual missile. Finally it tests the missiles' ability to locate a target and track it to a 'kill'.

Three different types of drones are used at Combat Archer: the MQM-107 and Ryan Firebee subscale drones, and the F-4 "full scale" drone. Depending on the missile to be shot and what they are specifically trying to test determines what drone will be used.

In my case, I shot an AIM-7 Sparrow radar-guided missile at an F-4, and my missile shot was testing the ability to shoot when the target is performing a certain type of electronic jamming. Since the subscale drones could not carry this particular type of jammer (and since radar target size was a factor) we shot against an F-4.

I can't over-emphasize what a HUGE learning experience it was to shoot an actual missile against an actual target. One of the first things I learned was that, to use some idiomatic language, 'missiles are not laser guns'. What I mean is, shooting a missile does not instantly vaporize your opponent like if you were shooting a laser -- the engagement takes time, and lots of it! It was amazing how much time it took between when my thumb hit the pickle button and when the missile came off the rail (the longest 1.5 seconds ever!). Even more startling was how long a 30-second missile time-of-flight is when you can actually see the other aircraft flying toward you! This effect is even more pronounced for guys who shoot short-range missiles like the AIM-9, when they are actually engaged in a turning dogfight while they lock up and shoot the missile...then have to keep dogfighting as the missile tracks to the target.

Another huge lesson I learned is that missiles are machines and thus open to malfunction. Prior to participating in Combat Archer, I had this strange belief that every time I launched a missile that it would work flawlessly and hit the target. NOT TRUE! I witnessed all manner of malfunctions, from detonations 50 feet in front of the launch aircraft, to guidance fins coming off in flight, to just plain not tracking to the target. I hadn't really contemplated any of these scenarios until I saw them during the exercise. It is much better to experience these learning points under the controlled environment off the coast of the Florida panhandle than it would be in the hostile skies over badguy territory against an enemy that can shoot back.

Yes, it's tragic in a way to destroy warbirds like this...but the experience gained by those who are doing this is immeasurable. If there were an economical way to build a high-performance drone that mimiced the energy, turn rate, IR reflectivity, radar signature, etc, of an actual fighter, I agree that it would be better than shooting down a real warplane.

Unfortunately, it's not.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group