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 Post subject: Taildragger?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:46 pm 
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What do I need to do to get a license/certificate/endorsement to fly a taildragger? None of the schools in Winchester, Martinsburg, or Leesburg (my 3 closest) have a tail wheel plane.

Mudge the possibly premature

ps. I know that's a tempting straight line but LEAVE IT ALONE. :oops:

pps. I didn't get to fly yesterday. Gusts to 30k. I don't think so. :shock:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Location: Northern VA
What, you didn't want x-wind practice?
:: Mudge: "I've got full right rudder in, and we are still blowing off the runway centerline!"

Basically, if you are asking about flying a t/w when you get your private, all you need is a logbook endorsement from a t/w qual'ed CFI. If you are asking about flying a t/w as part of your learning *now*, all you need is a t/w qual'ed CFI, and a t/w plane to fly.

I repeat the earlier invite to KCJR.... We have a few CFI's and multiple t/w planes...might could make the trip worth yer while.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:31 pm 
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Taildragger, now you are talking about an real airplane. Ask around for any EAA'ers or call AOPA and ask them. Ther isn't a whole lot to getting checked and a sign off, just finding a instructor to do it is the hard part. You can't get any better training than that 8)

Lynn


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:13 pm 
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Lynn Allen wrote:
Ther isn't a whole lot to getting checked and a sign off, just finding a instructor to do it is the hard part. You can't get any better training than that 8)


At least around these parts the instructor will probably want to fly with you for 7-10 hours before signing off on your tailwheel endorsement. I found an instructor who let me go in about 7. Oh, and then don't get cocky, otherwise you'll end up like me - groundlooping about 2 hours later. Good thing was I didn't scratch the plane, and missed the hanger (ask Obergrafeter about that one!). That and always watch out for gopher holes that might reach out and grab your tires. That was a 2k learning experience after the engine teardown!

Ryan

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:16 pm 
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I'd plan on at least 10 hours.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:19 pm 
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mudge,
you can plan a little get-away with mrs mudge and get your endoresement over a weeks vacation. You could go to several places in Florida, or up in my neck of the woods at Andover. Many places specialize in taildragger.
Look into glider training too. Trust me, a few flights in a SGS2-33 will be like 10 or more in the Cherokee . . .

Bret


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:21 pm 
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Too bad none of the close places have a T/W to train in. I think aviation is taught much more effectively in a taildragger. I did my whole private training in a Citabria, and I'm glad I did. I think you'd have more fun, too.

Chris


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:56 pm 
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there are some books that can help you understand the differences and give you an idea if what;s involved. Larry Bartlett has a video, a long time ago I bought a book called "The Complete Taildragger Pilot" or sinthing like that that was very interesting. Another thing I did was build an RC J-3 Cub, and play around with it on a table – you understand where the CG is and what happens when it swings around. You can also practice taildragger technique at the super market. When Mrs Mudge want to go shopping, help her out and push the shopping cart (or trolley if you want to fly a Spit). Only you have to push it backwards . . . You'll learn all you want to know.


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 Post subject: Tony Markl
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:47 am 
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Tony Markl is a GREAT instructor and GREAT person. He teaches in an Aeronca L-16, beautifully restored. When you start your training, he will give you a handout about flying conventional gear airplanes that is full of good tips and techniques. You get to fly around the Eastern Shore of Maryland- very beautiful flying. Training with him WILL make you a better pilot...

Here is Tony's site:

http://www.intercom.net/~markl/

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:34 am 
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FF...Thanks for the link. Sounds interesting BUT, Rigby is 170 miles from me.
Don't think that would be a fun commute.

Mudge the isolated :roll:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:50 am 
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Mudge:
"The Compleat Taildragger Pilot" (Yes, the word 'complete' is really spelled incorrectly in the title) by Harvey Plourde is (IMO) a must-have book. ISBN: 0963913700

I can't overstate the importance of getting a quality tailwheel endorsement. Bad habits learned early in low-powered aircraft can become potentially life-threatening in higher-powered machines.

My #1 item on the things-to-avoid list includes the mindset of "you have to get the tail up as quickly as possible to improve forward visibility". IMO, if you hear this, find someone else to train you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:59 am 
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L2Driver wrote:
"The Compleat Taildragger Pilot" (Yes, the word 'complete' is really spelled incorrectly in the title)


That's not a misspelling if you're in the UK! Neither is 'manoeuvre'!

:)

FWIW, using 'compleat' supposedly means 'quintessential'.


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 Post subject: the taildragger..
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:09 pm 
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Location: pewaukee, WI ,usa
Greetings from snow bound WI mudge!

Here's a few thoughts to think about as I went through this very same thing about 4 years ago. The place I learned at does have a citabria as
well as 3 152's and 3 warriors and an piper arrow (complex) and twin
engine toys. I'm getting farther along on my journey to be checked out
in everything in their hangars before I go get deeper into ownership. Again,

1. Tailwheel definitely makes you a better pilot - and are lots and lots of fun. You learn lots about rudder control, stick / yoke control and weight
and balance - (can you say physics experiment!)

but there are caveats that should be thought about..

There are fewer of them to learn with, so it may or may not be available
to fly when you want it. And at your stage you want that same airplane or
type of plane alot so you can keep your familiarity and learn those good
habits. I call this priority one - I want it often, and when I want it.

It will take you longer to solo w/ tailwheel. I went through this dilemma
myself and after a long talk with my instructor he gave me some good
advice.. get your private out of the way first. I'm flying out of a towered
field - to get to that solo I have to have full knowledge of radio, airplane,
emergency procedures, weather effects and pattern work all down to a
well working science before they will trust me with that airplane.

There are people that maybe can get this all down with the added
challenges of tailwheel - the rudder control, nose visibility, etc. but for the
95% of the rest of us.. my instructor told me to add +10 hrs to your
solo time. (why... well they don't want to sign you off too early since
they make less money, b. if you do have an accident it really does look
bad on them, and the FAA does really come down them with accidents,
often looking hard at the whole operation.
c. you take their 1 tailwheel away for a long period of time that others
can't rent it, hurting their cashflow. (often at least a couple months out)
d. statistics don't lie and you're more likely to have a accident in a tw
at this point of your training.

Also, tailwheels will probably cost more / hr (~18-20$/hr more wet).

while lots of people learn on tailwheel, and it does make a great pilot,
I for one chose to focus on getting the knowledge and figuring out how
things work the best for me and my safety.

Also, while many people get a tailwheel certificate in a weekend, or
even in <10 hours.. I doubt that many
places will let you rent theres with less than 15-20 hours of time.
(probably their insurance criteria) . If you didn't learn it there,
they will probably have you go through a very rigorous checkout -
figure 3 hrs of flight time w instructor before they would let you rent
theirs. They want to see time in type, and lots and lots of landings.

Along with all this, I hope you have looked into renters insurance and
have it by the time you solo, you need the protection. I've used AOPA
and Avemco with good coverage at reasonable rates. Unfortunately
when renting, even though a tailwheel makes you a much better pilot,
it doesn't help your insurance rates, nor does a instrument rating for
that matter.

To sum it up... a tailwheel adds to that "license to learn" - its an
absolute blast to learn, teaches you to use your rudder pedals as well
as some very cool manuevers like slips, etc. and in the end it builds
your confidence when you have it down.

So I hope folks find this useful. These are just my opinions and my
experience so others may vary.

henning

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:30 pm 
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Henning...Thanks for the very informative post.
I have every intention of getting my Private before moving on to the taildragger.

Concentrate on one thing at a time.

Mudge the focused :shock:

ps. I know about snowbound. We've got 8" on the ground since about 2AM.
OH WELL...no flying tomorrow and probably not Wednesday either...RATS

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 Post subject: one more thing..
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Location: pewaukee, WI ,usa
You're very welcome mudge...

I just got to thinking.. one detail I should clarify... where I'm flying the
C152 is ~65$/hr wet.. and a warrior is ~$85/hr wet.. and the citabria
I believe is ~$85 wet.. thus my comment.. :-)..

what kind of rates are you seeing there?

take care,

henning

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