Warbird Information Exchange

In a strange twist, you can buy the lake but you apparently cannot salvage the bomber. Does anyone know if it contains human remains or unexploded ordinance?

I guess it's one more airplane could be saved, but probably won't be.

Here is the article:

German lake with crashed British World War II bomber for sale

6 September 2004

BERLIN - A lake near the former Nazi V2 rocket facility with a crashed British World War II Lancaster bomber resting at its bottom has been put up for sale by the German government, an auction house announced.

The 43 hectare lake at the Third Reich's Peenemuende rocket plant on the Baltic Sea island of Usedom will be auctioned off on 23 September.

Peenemuende was where the Nazi scientists developed the V1 and later the V2 rockets which were fired at targets in Britain and Belgium at the end of the war. The "V" in the rocket's name stood for "Vergeltungswaffe" or vengeance weapon.

The Peenemuende facility was destroyed by British bombing raids in 1943 and it is assumed the Lancaster at the bottom of Koelpinsee lake was shot down during those raids.

According to the auction house, Norddeutsche Grundstuecksauktionen AG, the bomber is classified as a historically protected site and removing it from the lake would probably not be allowed.

The starting price is EUR 29,000.

More information on the sale is available at the websites: www.ndga.de and www.ostsee-auktionen.de.

Historically Protected Site? Wouldn't raising the aircraft and restoring it also be considered protecting it? And not only that but be protected better than being left to rot for only the very few who dive to enjoy. Wouldn't the memory of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice be best served by a Lancaster that could travel the world and tell their story? Or at the very least preserved for all time in a museum? Besides my question is; if you own the lake do you not own what is in the lake? As you can tell I'm not an advocate for lettings lye where they are. Eventually overtime even in freshwater these mighty aircraft will deteriorate. Just as we remember ancient civilizations from 5000 years ago. World War 2 will be remembered for thousands of years to come. And if we don't take every chance to preserve what we still have left then future generations will be cheated out the experience of being able to stand infront of history and touch a time that only those who were there, knew what it was like.

Historically Protected Site? Wouldn't raising the aircraft and restoring it also be considered protecting it? And not only that but be protected better than being left to rot for only the very few who dive to enjoy. Wouldn't the memory of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice be best served by a Lancaster that could travel the world and tell their story? Or at the very least preserved for all time in a museum? Besides my question is; if you own the lake do you not own what is in the lake? As you can tell I'm not an advocate for lettings lye where they are. Eventually overtime even in freshwater these mighty aircraft will deteriorate. Just as we remember ancient civilizations from 5000 years ago. World War 2 will be remembered for thousands of years to come. And if we don't take every chance to preserve what we still have left then future generations will be cheated out the experience of being able to stand infront of history and touch a time that only those who were there, knew what it was like.

If memory serve me correct it is ED647 and there were canadians on board.. One of her engines is in the museum at the peenemunde site. It was an early lanc B1 with needle props. There is not much left of her just a section of fuselage and some wreckage in the lake. There was a documentary on it a few months back.

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Cheers,
Peter

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Dear Peter,

Received the following from Floyd Williston of Winnipeg who has researched this raid for a book he is writing. Floyd says:

"I did a lot of research on this raid in 1943 and wrote an article for a
couple of Canadian newspapers. There were no Canadians listed on ED647(one NewZealander) although there were many Canadians lost on the raid. I'll check it further.

"Here is another related site. http://www.bomberhistory.co.uk/JA691/reper.html

According to Williston's research, no Canadians were on ED647. Do you have information to refute this statement?

Norman Malayney

Surely there should be no question as to recovering the wreckage considering there may be the remains of the crew still down there, it is a war grave.

Hi Guys,

I got directed to this page by Floyd Wiliston (see above) as i have an active interest in 100 Squadron.

HAve the remains of ED647 recently been discovered at the bottom of this lake, or has it been (reasonably) common knowledge for some time? Certainly i wasn't aware that they were there - my files have always listed her as "missing without a trace", and the Loss Card for this a/c yields no clues

Thanks in advance for anything anyone can offer

Greg

Col,

I can add to your post that the skipper was in the RNZAF, and the rest of the crew were, as far as i am aware, British - certainly they were all serving in the RAF.

Best wishes,

Greg

Last years we dug up the remains of 2 lancaster's and a short sterling. In Holland the rules are humain remains (also UK aircraft) are indentifed if possible en put in a wargrave in holland or the UK. If UXO's are found it has to be cleared by the EOD. In Holland WOII planes only are recoverd by the RNLAF. No recovery's for personal use.

Alan Wrote:

"Surely there should be no question as to recovering the wreckage considering there may be the remains of the crew still down there, it is a war grave."

Well if someone died in a public place, would it be a grave? What if it's on an interstate? You'd have to close off the old road, and reroute a new section of highway to go around it. Sounds like a few million $ I'm sure taxpayers would go for it.

Chris

Cees

I've actually seen the Peenemuende Lancaster!

Back in 92 (I think) I was serving in Berlin, a group of us went up to Peenemuende as the guests of Deter Proffer (sp?) who was running the museum and had been squadron boss of JG9 the LSK/LVK before re-unification. (JG9 was a Flogger unit flying out of PN)

We were taken to the man-made lake that was used to provide water for the powerstation. It was full of black muck and we weren’t able to see much but because of low lake level a section of Lanc was visible, assuming it was resting on the bottom the depth would have been about 10-15ft. Unfortunately the bottom is very silty and rumour was that a diver had been killed on the wreck in the past so we didn’t wade in. The section I saw was about 10-15ft long (couldn't get that close)

A short while afterwards one of my bosses who was a keen diver gave it the once-over and said there was a fair amount still existing under the surface though some had been stripped (think he said upper wings) sorry I can't remember his name to get the full story

Yes I do have a photo, but don't get too excited, the fuselage section is a small object taken in very dark surroundings and I think it's in the loft somewhere - I'm unlikely to find it before this thread goes cold but I'll post it when it turns up

Now if you want to ask how Deter 'stole' 2 x Mig- 23, a Mig 19 and a Mig 21.........

-Nick

The Lancaster in kolpinsee lake is DV202KMZ of 44 rhodesia squadron. It was lost on the evening of 18th august 1943 on a raid of Peenemunde. the crew were..P/ORC Reg harding (RCAF), Sgt Mac mc Dermot (RAF), F/Sgt Les Pendergast (RAF), F/Sgt Pete Pynisky (RCAF) Sgt Bill Quance (RAF), F/Sgt Stan Shaw (RAF) and Sgt Tom Weston (RAF). The bodies have never been officialy recovered though the red cross said at the time that German reports had said the bodies were recovered and buried on the south side of the lakes banking. Is there any way this can be confirmed now as one of the aircrew was my grandfather?..

Further to Ashley Towlson's note, the pilot of DV202 was my cousin Reg Harding, RCAF. So there are two of us who are related to the crew and aware of the aircraft. Apparently dives have taken place in the last few years and confirm no bodies aboard.
Any more info on the sale of the land (with lake)?
As there any group or association that would check to confirm the grave sites on the south shore? This was not possible for the post war Wargraves Commision due to the area being held by the Russians who refused access. Otherwise the bodies would have been exhumed by the Comission post war, confirmed, and placed in proper WC cemetries.
Rich Chrysler, Mount Hope, Ont. Canada

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Rich Chrysler

Heres the Google earth view of Peenemunde, the lake in the middle has already been marked the Kolpinsee & a note with it says
"If we could have a HIGH res picture, we could see a british bombarder Lancaster immerged in the Kölpinsee(lake) "
Like all things on the net, just because somebody has Id it doesn't mean its the correct one ! It could also be the bigger one in the forground.