Warbird Information Exchange

Flew Tuesday, Wednesday, and today. Did Steep (45º) turns, Low passes and landings. The steep turns are getting better. That is to say they’ve gone from “suck” to “pathetic”. I can’t seem to get them coordinated. If I concentrate on maintaining altitude, my turn gets too shallow. If I concentrate on maintaining the 45º, I lose altitude. If I concentrate on maintaining both, I don’t add enough power and lose altitude anyway. I used to be able to walk, chew gum, and look around.
Evidently that skill has left me.

Low passes are inconsistent. One time I’ll do a perfect low pass, maintaining altitude and speed, right down the middle of the runway. The next one will be 2 out of the 3. Another will be 2 out of 3 but not necessarily the same 2. AAARRRGGGHHH!

Landings…Did one Tuesday. Not too shabby. Did two Wednesday. One pretty good. One pretty UGLY. Did three today. GREASED the first one. Two and three got us on the ground but nothing to brag about. Realized what I’m doing wrong. On my approach, I’m fixating on the numbers at the threshold but when I level out, I’m not looking down the runway. I’m still watching about 30’ – 40’ in front of the plane when I should be looking WAAAYYY farther ahead. This makes it seem as though the ground is rushing up at me faster than it actually is and I’m flaring too high. Since I now know what I’m doing wrong, I can fix it.

On my third landing, some guy pulled out onto the runway when I was on final. Got a little rattled but saw that he’d be off well before I got over the threshold. I always thought the a/c on final had “right of way”. I guess it just verifies the old saying: “Right of Way is not something you have, it’s something you’re given and if you don’t get it, you ain’t got it.”

I also seem to be unable to stop pulling back on the yoke when all I want to do is turn. Obviously, this makes me climb which is not good. That's something else I have to concentrate on.

Don’t read discouragement into this “bummer” report. I’m not getting discouraged, I’m getting more determined.

Mudge the persistent

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Land of the free because of the brave

Mudge,

We all went through most if not all of these momentary "lapses of talent"--it will definitely come to you, and one day you will be in the pattern laughing about what you are experiencing now. Continue the process, and remember that the individual that nearly cut you off somehow got his license! The main thing is to relax and enjoy the whole #^%$$# deal.

Scott

Mudge,
That it exactly what I was talking about when I was saying the '1 step forward-2 back' stuff before. Actually I think I said 2 forward 1 back, but that was after I had been listening to the decider on TV. fool me once, well, won't get fooled again.
As you are learning, you are also getting better at judging what you are doing, and doing wrong. You realize what you don't know. You will feel like you truly suck, and that's a good thing. It's part of getting better. One day, it will all click. Wear a bad shirt that day . . .

Mudge,

When I'm trying to learn something new, I find I always SUCK the worst...just before that "click" occurs.

You're trying to manage several things at once and people aren't used to that, right out of the box. You'll get it, so just enjoy the process.

Re. Turns: anticipate, as you go past about 35* bank begin to add a little back pressure, then a little more as bank steepens; don't wait til you are 45*. Same as rolling back to level, lead it a little, don't wait til you have all the bank off to release some back pressure, On landing, make the level off or round out a longer gradual thing; try to stop almost all the descent a couple of feet above the runway. Note the pitch attitude when you sit on the runway before takeoff: when you land you want to raise the nose at least this far, then a little bit more. If you enjoy the lessons and you don't quit, you'll get there.

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

Time for a grease pencil......You need to draw you a small circle on the side window for doing turns around a point. Your refernce point should stay within the circle at the proper altitude and bank angle. A short line close by can also be used to give you a fast reference line for 45 deg banks. A couple of dots on the windshield can be used to give you proper aim points for touchdown in normal conditions.

As to holding speed and altitude, that is going to take a little time. You have to develope the feel for the aircraft with your head out of the cockpit for the altitude and the speed that you want. The trick is being able to find the airspeed indicator and the altimeter instantly when you do duck inside to verify they are where you want to be at. It's like running something with a non-synchromesh tranny....it becomes old hat with a little practice.

I concur with Bill on this one. Steep turns are tough. Applying back pressure needs to be done before reaching 45 degrees. When you practice your steep turns, take a mental photograph in your mind of what a perfect steep-turn attitude looks like. remember where the horizon cuts through the windshield when in that perfect turn, and remember the angle of bank. Get it stuck in your head. be able to draw it. Best thing is to get your instructor to demonstrate a perfect(ish) steep turn so you don't need to be flying while getting that mental photograph.

When on the ground I'd suggest practicing corrections in your head. Give yourself different scenarios... such as if the horizon appears lower, or higher.... Or if the bank is less than 45 degrees and the horizon is higher than usual. Think about what control inputs it would take to correct the picture you see back to the perfect "mental photograph" you took earlier.

If that pictures is perfect, your turn will be perfect (enough). You won't need to concentrate on your altitude as much when you know that if your horizon is right, so is your altitude.

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

David

Mudge, the C-172 has a very helpful line of rivets that can be used as an aid in steep turns. When you figure out where that horizon line cuts across the Warrior cowling you'll have it licked. After a while you won't need the cheat line.

Practice Practice Practice.....

Also relax, no death grip on the yoke....

It will come to you in time.

Rick...That's good advice...if there's a semi-level horizon.I'm flying in between mountains. The horizon goes up and down. Quite drastically at times.

Mudge the horizontally challenged

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Land of the free because of the brave

Mudge,
It's very important to get the sight picture of the cowl, horizon, and windscreen and to perceive the turn rate- if your turn rate speeds up, you are probably dropping elevator or letting the bank get too steep. If the turn rate is slowing down, you are climbing or shallowing the bank. You also have to remember that there are essentially three components of a turn- entry control inputs, constant turn rate inputs, and exit inputs. I like to lead with rudder and gentle aileron roll to the appropriate bank, and then adjust rudder and ailerons to a constant turn rate. You can do all of this with the sight picture and perception of the turn rate. Don't look at the instruments. Also remember that some of your steeper banks will require adverse control inputs, including relaxing turning rudder, ie in a right turn using left rudder and relaxing aileron from right wing down to right wing up control inputs. These aren't big deflections, just relaxations from the entry inputs. The other thing to feel is A$$ input. If you feel yourself sliding on the seat, you don't have a coordinated turn. Adjust the controls until you feel even pressure on your a$$. When you exit the turn, use gentle control deflections to roll out in a straight heading, usually half a windshield to a full windshield of ground while you are doing the roll out. Another thing to do while you are flying straight and level is Dutch rolls. Just rock the wings up and down into a bank while keeping the airplane flying in a straight line. This gives you a sight picture of the turn entry and bank and how to keep the airplane level in turns.

Landings are just practice, practice, practice. A good landing starts when you turn downwind. You spend that few seconds planning your descent from the transition point, landing gear and flaps (always in that order), airspeed and power setting, constant glide, gates through base turn and final turn (how high you are at those points), final glide, look down the runway, feel the plane in ground effect, and hold the nose up while it settles. Don't forget to look for traffic. This when most accidents occur, so looking all around is important on descent. A constant airspeed is most important to adjust for when you are on final, but if you are carrying it throughout the descent, it is an afterthought. One thing I believe is that you should be looking between the touch down point and the end of the runway equal amounts until you can't see the touch down point over the nose. After that, you are really looking out the sides of the airplane to maintain your direction and wings level. Some S-turns can help, if you have to see the touch down point, but directional control at short final is more important than being able to see your touch down point. Above ground effect begin to slowly flair and feel the ground effect carry you, pull off power, look down the runway, and let the airplane settle through ground effect. Here is a great training aid for you; I know the geese are all over West By God right now, so look at them on short final. They come in at a constant airspeed, flying straight on short final, and right before they get into ground effect, they begin to flare. The geese pull power off by turning their wings up and dropping their tails like flaps. Also, note where they are looking when they land- they look ahead, not where they are touching down until right before they do so, and their eyes are set up to be looking sideways. You are doing the same by pulling power off, keeping your nose up and letting yourself settle, and using your peripheral vision for directional reference.

So you must aspire to be Mudge, the Goose...

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REMEMBER THE SERGEANT PILOTS!

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Land of the free because of the brave

My man Mudge, how many hours do you have now? In the old days of learning in something simple like a Cub some people got the hang of it in 5 or 6 hours. Now it takes longer, but around 12 or 15 hours you should begin to feel in charge. In steady level flight remember to TRIM out all control pressures so the plane can fly hands off and not fight you. Are you getting the prefight and post flight briefings you need? Does your CFI think you are having trouble or are you just too hard on yourself?

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Bill Greenwood
Spitfire N308WK

The most important thing to do in any skill related activity, is to "Relax".

As far as the steep turns, reference to the artificial horizon turn bank indicator, rate of climb etc. And never become object oriented, that is to fixate on anything. When alone in that aircraft you need your eyes looking all around, up and down. Almost secondary to the attitude of the aircraft is to spot ALL traffic sharing the sky with you. Just like your landing deal, learn to relax enough to scan your eyes, like you should do when driving a car, expecially when entering an intersection.
More so in an aircraft you sometimes have to go with the flow so to say, and can't fight it. Calmness and relaxation are important.

I've got 17.5 hours. Maybe I am being a bit too hard on myself. Could be from wanting to get REALLY good at this. I can fly the pattern with no problem so if I HAD to solo, I think I could. My landings get me on the ground and the a/c is still usable. It's just that most of 'em ain't too pretty.
I have no problem flying at altitude. I can get the a/c in trim quickly and easily and maintain my heading and altitude. Any turns up to 30º I’m perfectly comfortable with. Like I said, I do have a tendency to pull back on the yoke when I’m going into a turn. I can remedy that with a little concentration ‘til it becomes “muscle memory” not to do it. (I suppose this climbing turn wouldn’t be too bad if I planned on continuing all the way over to inverted and start to dive. I probably learn that in the Cessna Pilot Kit lesson 45…The one titled…”STRAFING RUNS”. )

Have faith troops…I’ll get it.

Mudge the confident

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Land of the free because of the brave