Warbird Information Exchange

Found it here....


http://dailynightly.nbcnews.com/_news/2 ... snhp&pos=6


So, what is the relative difference between this VC-121 and the Columbine III at the NMUSAF? How significant is this airframe and
how many should or could be saved in today's limited financial environment? Having questioned that, I fully understand how
important and rare ANY Constellation is, but this raised questions about the true "first" Air Force One.

DC

There are SIGNIFICANT differences between this one and Columbine III at the Air Force Museum. Columbine II is one of the small number of VC-121A (L-749A) "short fuselage" Constellations delivered to the Air Force in the late 40's. The first "Columbine" was also a VC-121A and is on display at the Pima Air and Space Museum in Tucson. Columbine II was the first official Presidential "Air Force One" used by Eisenhower when he assumed office in 1953. The previous Columbine ("Columbine I") Connie used by Eisenhower was one assigned to him as a 5 star Army General.

Columbine III is a VC-121E (L-1049B) Super Constellation originally slated to be built for the Navy as an R7V-1 but was modified as a special transport for President Eisenhower and replaced Columbine II as his primary "Air Force One."

All of these aircraft are unique and historically significant and absolutely should be preserved.

Columbine III is a super Connie while the first two were only L-749's.

As for II, it should deffinately be saved and will be. The Dover Museum is thinking about trying to get it. If I win the lottery, it will be in the group of the first aircraft I would purchase for our museum.

They were not the first true AF1's. That would have been FDR's C-54. However, they were the first aircraft to use the AF1 callsign after the midair mixup in 1953.

_________________
Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

Actually, this plane has never been at PIMA. The one at PIMA is Columbine I which he used prior to him becoming President. Columbine II and III was what he used during Presidency.

_________________
Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

Tyler - you are right about the this Columbine never having been at Pima, as I said in my post:

"The first "Columbine" was also a VC-121A and is on display at the Pima Air and Space Museum in Tucson. Columbine II was the first official Presidential "Air Force One" used by Eisenhower when he assumed office in 1953. The previous Columbine ("Columbine I") Connie used by Eisenhower was one assigned to him as a 5 star Army General."

Maybe what I said was confusing but it said just what you are saying: Columbine I is at Pima and the Columbine II we are talking about is at Marana.

I hope they find a way to ferry Columbine II to Dover. If they ever do, I will try to be there for the arrival.

To avoid any more confusion the "Marana" where it sits is KAVQ (formerly Avra Valley) and not KMZJ (Pinal Air Park) which is also commonly called Marana.

I wonder when the photos for the article were taken.

When I look google earth, it appears that she is missing all the engines firewall forward, all flight control surfaces and the RH wing tip.

Not sure what I was reading when I read your post as looking back, there is nothing confusing about that post lol.

_________________
Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

I asked this question on the facebook WIX page - how much would it take to get her to ferry status - assuming that the engines are still there and all the control surfaces? $50 - $75K?? I have an big empty hangar in Wendover where she could be in out of the elements!

Tom P.

Tyler, we are both on the same page - too bad your outfit couldn't buy the Columbine II and fix it up to fly on the air show circuit! But compared to the C-47 your group is working on, the VC-121A would be a super expensive and maintenance intensive project. We were very fortunate to have the MATS Connie let us see one of the short Connies on athe air show circuit for all those years. Seeing it fly at Terre Haute, indiana in July 2003 was probably the highlight of the Centennial of Aviation for me.

Hope you get to fly in the C-123 to Thunder Over Michigan next month. I will be there on Friday, August 9 to hopefully see the arrival.

Good info here on the plane:

http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-connie_news.htm

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"Everyone wants to live here (New Jersey), evidenced by the fact that it has the highest population per capita in the U.S..."

The article that started this thread, I had read on another site the day prior. This article supprised me as there was an article on this plane last month or the month prior with pretty much the same information.

In that article, they said it only needs an annual done and I think maybe some overhauled props as the major hurdles. Now, im not sure if they have them in another place or they need to be sourced, but they also need a few control surfaces as a few have been taken off and used on other aircraft. However, they said the price tag to get it into a condition to be ferried would be ~$200,000. That came straight from the owners too.

I know the plane was previously for sale, however, the asking price then was over $3,000,000 I believe.

There are two planes I absolutely want to have to restore for the air show circuit and to give rides on. This plane and N777EA, which is a Douglas DC-7C. While operated by KLM, I would restore the Dc-7 into a Pan Am bird.

Both Aircraft would be fully restored both inside and out. The insides would be custom made so they can appear like the originals, but meet the safety guidelines of today. No expense would be spared and my WAG is that each would be in the five million dollar range once finished. The only place I would allow modern things to be installed, would be the cockpit. Even then, it would only be for safety reasons.

_________________
Tyler Pinkerton
Active Member of Air Heritage Inc. of Beaver Falls, PA.
Aircraft: C47B, C-123K, Fairchild F-24, Funk Model B, L-21B, T-28B, T-34B
Static: F-4C Phantom II, F-15A, T-3 Provost

A little bit of news from Ralph Pettersen on the Columbine II VC-121A:

http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-connie_news.htm#MAY18

Hopefully we will see some progress on this beauty being made ready for a ferry flight to a new home!

Dynamic Aviation has signed a “due diligence” agreement to determine if the plane can be ferried to Bridgewater Air Park in VA. If the plane can be ferried then a decision will be made to make it airworthy to fly at airshows or not. They need parts to make it all happen.
http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-connie_news.htm#FEB07

As far as the first Air Force One (before there was an Air Force), a C-87 was built for FDR but he never used it.

Also, a Douglas RD-2 sn 1138 . BuNo 9347 was orderd as a Navy VIP aircraft and placed at the disposal of the President. It entered service in June, 1933.
Again, there is no indication that FDR ever used it.

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Remember the vets, the wonderful planes they flew and their sacrifices for a future many of them did not live to see.
Note political free signature.
I figure if you wanted my opinion on items unrelated to this forum, you'd ask for it.