Warbird Information Exchange

Saw this cited on Hyperscale ... up till now, I was confused on what exactly was "happening" when LCDR Davis went in. From this video, it's obvious the team was reforming into the 6-ship Delta (my term, may not be theirs) following the popular "Bomb Burst/Crossover".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87NIuJyJmw

Wade

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It looks like a noticeable wing rock (high speed stall?) as he is pulling around to form up with the rest of the group. Tough to see that knowing the end result....

Mark

Pretty sad. God speed #6.

Looks like accelerated stall to me. He's really yanking it around to form up with the rest of the group. His nose appears to drop ever so slightly just before he goes out of the frame. At that speed , and flying at essentially tree-top level, he only had a fraction of a second to correct.

From what I understand, these guys don't wear G-suits (at least the Thunderbirds don't). From his perspective, pulling out of that hard turn, trying to hold focus on the main formation, while fighting to maintain high-speed level flight at what appears to be about 200' AGL was probably all it took to put him over the edge of the envelope. Sad stuff.

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Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
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The Hornet is capable of some really phenomenal high AOA maneuvering in an area of the flight envelope that most would consider "post stall".

A formation join-up is a complicated beast, especially using the technique that the Blues seem to, which looks like a pure-pursuit join which squares the corner end-game. I think it's unlikely that a "high speed stall" occurred here...if that were to occur, it wouldn't be tough to unload and pull the ejection handles if you thought you weren't going to make it.

IMHO GLOC is a more probable answer.

I had read somewhere else (can't find it now) that GLOC was something that the Navy is already looking into and is focusing on that aspect of the accident.

Not that I'm an expert by any means, but I'd tend to agree with Randy and think that the GLOC scenario makes the most sense, without knowing all of the facts.

Gary

I was hoping Randy would chime in. It "looks" like a stall to those of us who don't know the Hornet, but I first suspected GLOC for one primary reason, that Hacker also mentioned: I seriously doubt that if he had "stalled", he'd just ride the thing in without at least initiating the ejection sequence (hell, he may have indeed pulled the handles ... we'll see).

Without a doubt, he knew his airplane and would have ejected if the airplane departed that low - and he was physically capable of grabbing the handle(s).

My civilian-slow-mover-pilot 'guess' is that he was just a passenger after that hellacious 'corner' he took.

Wade

PS: Hacker - check out the new USAF Weapons Review ... the cover may look a little familiar to you.

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Then again I think he may have had the character of not ejecting if the aircraft was heading toward homes and stayed with it to keep from making matters worst. Good point though about GLOC - since they do not wear g-suits that would make it potentially a more plausible explanation. A sad loss no matter the reason....

Mark

It is really tough to speculate on something like this, not knowing what the rules of being a Blue Angel are. I've read in one place (but I have no idea how accurate the statement is) that the BA pilots are expected to make every attempt to keep a sick/crashing aircraft from hitting spectators, up to and including riding the jet into the dirt.

Even if this is a true statement, based on the footage I've seen, there is NO attempt to get wings level or perform ANY maneuver whatsoever. The jet DID go right into a neighborhood...so even if the above statement is true, it seems highly unlikely that a BA pilot who is sitting in an aircraft that is sick (stalled, bird strike, what have you) would just sit back and let it crash into houses and not be wrenching the controls around to try and salvage it.

That's another reason (among many) I am leaning toward GLOC. The video doesn't show it well enough to really tell....just some thoughts and, of course, I'm not an official investigator.

As a side note, I have NEVER once been instructed to consider civilian population on the ground in my decision-to-eject matrix. Although that's true, every time I jettisoned fuel tanks in Iraq when getting shot at I subconsciously and involuntarily did think about what I was dropping them on. I wonder how I would actually react if it were time to eject and I could see the jet was going to go into a populated area...

Seeing that video stirs up a memory or three, as I was witness to the Blues accident at Niagara Falls in 1985. Different situations obviously, but it's kind of gut wrenching to see this kind of incident, no matter what the circumstances or how far removed you may be.


I believe that the Thunderbirds do indeed wear G-suits...

Looking at the video, I tend to agree with the GLOC idea, but that's as far as I'll go because I do not fly, and mine is only second-hand knowledge. All I can say is that I'm saddened at this loss...


Fade to Black...

The TBird pilots haven't worn G-suits any time I've seen them perform. The announcer even points this out over the PA system, perhaps in an attempt to inspire even more awe in the crowd (as if that's possible?).

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Dean Hemphill, K5DH
Port Charlotte, Florida

OK, let me in on the secret,. What is GLOC?

Also called G-LOC.

Stands for "G" (induced) loss of consciousness.

He appears to have made a hard pull into the turn to join-up. If you notice the aircraft disappears for a second or two in a condesate cloud and then reappears in a stable descending left turn into the ground.

The re-join and form-up is about the hardest "G" manuever they perform and is quite wild to watch.

I too believe that this is probably a GLOC event and being so low to the ground in the re-join there was just not enough time to wake up.

Well, if that is true then the pilot did not know what happened. Could be I guess.