Firesnakes

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:31 am

I just read a small blurb in International Airpower Review - Volume 12 about the use of four Bell Cobras (1 AH-1F and 3 AH-1P) by the Florida Division of Forestry as aerial firefighters. Capable of slinging a 320 gallon bucket or having a 360 gallon foam/retardant "insertion system" in the ammunition bay. The aircraft are:

AH-1F / N109Z / 69-16422 (registered to USDA Forest Service)
AH-1P / N130FC / 76-22694 (FDF)
AH-1P/ N131FC / 76-22570 (FDF)
AH-1P / N132FC / 77-22747 (FDF)

Also they refer to 25 AH-1F's being modified for the USDA FS as "Firewatch cobras", these aircraft being acquired in 2003. The choppers are to be used as lead in and control aircraft. The first of which was supposed to deployed to the Redding Air Attack base sometime during 2004.

Does anybody have any pictures of these helicopter? Or even heard of this endeavor?

Don Martin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:00 am

I love the smell of napalm in the morning..................Ooops, I ment fire RETARDENT! :wink:

Dan K · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 8:33 am

A firesnake wouldn't look anything like this, would it?

http://www.warbirdrelics.com/ah-1.htm

And this one's even for sale... :minigun:

Rob Mears · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:20 am

Hmmmmmmmm. Looks like a possible source for acquiring an extra SCAS computer circuit card. :wink:

I can only HOPE that the government allows these Cobras to be sold off to the civilian market once their useful service lives have expired. With the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, etc, I doubt if any current military hardware will be available as surplus anymore. I hear they are even scrapping old Humvee's now rather than selling them as surplus.

Steve T · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:22 pm

Rob et al--

This thread reminds me of the fascinating notion floated quite a few years ago now of turning retired A-10 Warthogs into firefighting tankers. Given their performance envelope, and all that ground clearance...it sounds like a logical new role for the design. Have to think though that given what's happened in the intervening years, we won't be seeing A-10s twanging down canyons in dayglo-and-white liveries, dropping retardant in the path of fires! (Oooo. I feel a painting coming on....)

The comment about Humvees (and Cobras) being junked for "security" reasons reminds me of this quote..."I got mine in the '50s. In '61 the US government stopped all sales. Everything was to be destroyed. Even trainers. Even helicopters. Even jeeps!" Guess who...?

S.

mrhenniger · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:39 pm

Steve T wrote:

This thread reminds me of the fascinating notion floated quite a few years ago now of turning retired A-10 Warthogs into firefighting tankers.

I remember that Steve, but someone here shot down the idea. It may have had something to do with the engines. I suspect there is a good reason why it hasn't been tried by now.

The image of the dayglo A-10 does look good though.

Mike

Warhawk · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:51 pm

Rob Mears wrote:

I hear they are even scrapping old Humvee's now rather than selling them as surplus.

With the exception of a batch of approximately 200 or so Marine Corps version Humvee's that fell through a crack in Uncle Sam's paper trail, military Humvee's have not, will not, ain't ever gonna be sold on the surplus market. This predates 9/11 by several years and the excuse given is that they do not meet federal emissions standards. The EPA gave the military a "special dispensation" to have them built that way and because if you flooded the market with reasonably cheap surplus Humvee's you wouldn't get sixty grand plus for your civvy version. Thats right up there M-151 jeeps can't be sold to civilians because they might roll over (you can buy them anywhere else in the free world, just don't try to import one) and U.S. armored vehicles can't be sold to civilians because they might go start a war in Kansas or some such nonsense (you can however import and/or purchase from a dealer british APC's, tanks, armored cars or SPG's and it's all hunky dory).

And you all thought the Navy was ridiculous when it came to salvaging wrecks. :partyman:

Dan K · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:59 pm

Warbirdnerd · **Joined:** Fri Apr 30, 2004 7:34 pm **Posts:** 2923

The FireHog (A-10 Tanker) site can be found here.
http://www.firehogs.com/

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:56 pm

Dan K wrote:

A firesnake wouldn't look anything like this, would it?

http://www.warbirdrelics.com/ah-1.htm

And this one's even for sale... :minigun:

Probably something similar, mind if I use one of those pics for the Cobra registry?

Dan K · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:04 pm

Scott, the photos aren't mine to give.

Here's the original website to which I linked:

www.warbirdrelics.com

Don Martin · **Posted:** Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:24 pm

Hey Alfred!
What about the Hummvees and M-151s I've seen on the side of the road with for sale signs on them? I almost bought a 151 a few years back(glad I didn't :wink:

). Of course the Hummvees were WAY UP NORTH, and the border isn't THAT FAR AWAY........................ :shock:

Jeffrey · **Joined:** Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:35 pm **Posts:** 253

From memory ( very likely to be very wrong ), there was something a long time ago in our news about a family in america suing the federal govt for the death of the husband in some sort of accident in an ex army jeep type vehicle as it did not comply to normal car standards of roadworthiness for civil vehicle and because of that all the jeeps used in veitnam were scrapped on their return to the states. I think from memory they were the ford "mutt" or something similar. might even be the M151's you were talking about.

Warhawk · **Posted:** Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:19 am

Don Martin wrote:

Hey Alfred!
What about the Hummvees and M-151s I've seen on the side of the road with for sale signs on them? I almost bought a 151 a few years back(glad I didn't :wink:

). Of course the Hummvees were WAY UP NORTH, and the border isn't THAT FAR AWAY........................ :shock:

As I said, around two hundred Marine Corps version Humvee's slipped through the cracks and were sold as complete units. Uncle Sam had fit when it happened and made sure it would not happen again. There are first series civilian models that I have seen that have "militarized" using surplus bit's. It's not a problem getting parts, just complete units. As for 151's, the ban on the sale of Mutt's went into effect in 1972. By that time many 151, 151A1 and some151A2 jeeps had already been sold. All 151's released after a certain date had to be torched in half. No problem, you just weld the halves back together and drive off so then it was decreed that they had to be cut into quarters. Again, no problem, it just took longer to weld the bits back together. The next step was crushing. Strip all the parts off of the body and crush the bodies. Fine, some enterprising souls started making reproduction bodies for all those loose parts. Then Uncle said enough. Srip the engines and transmissions and crush the rest.

Weeeeeelllllll, some enterprising individuals started smuggling them over the border from the great white north, titling them in New Jersey and selling them. Uncle put a stop to it, but if you buy any 151, especially a 151A2 make sure that you have the paperwork that came it with at the time it was sold surplus or a clear history and trail of ownership or the guy's in the dark suits may come knocking telling you that they are taking your jeep that you just restored.

Warhawk · **Posted:** Fri Sep 17, 2004 5:22 am

Oh, and your right, the border isn't that far a way. About eighty five miles to the north of me. The Border patrol checkpoint is five miles south of me too. :minigun:

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