60yr aircraft crash found in southern australia
Wed Jul 11, 2007 6:34 am
Skeletal remains found in sunken war planes
*
* July 11, 2007
HUMAN skeletal remains from the wrecks of two British war planes missing for 60 years have been found in Melbourne's Port Phillip Bay.
Two divers came across the remains during a recent dive between Mornington and Frankston, the Nine Network reported today.
The two British aircraft crashed into the bay during a training exercise in July, 1947.
Four people were killed but only one body was recovered at the time, but divers Paul Roadknight and Steve Boneham located the remains of one pilot still inside one of the wrecked aircraft about 20m below the surface of the bay.
They found the remains of another pilot next to the wreck of the second aircraft.
There was no information about the possible whereabouts of the fourth victim.
The wreckage of the two British Royal Navy single engined Fairy Firefly trainers is considered a significant archaeological find.
Mr Roadknight has tracked down the families of the dead pilots and a memorial is planned for next week, on the 60th anniversary of the crash.
Britain's Ministry of Defence is believed to support plans not to disturb the pilots' remains.
A permanent memorial to the victims could be built onshore, close to the crash site.
Heritage Victoria warns that diving near the wrecks is an offence that carries a heavy fine
*
* July 11, 2007
HUMAN skeletal remains from the wrecks of two British war planes missing for 60 years have been found in Melbourne's Port Phillip Bay.
Two divers came across the remains during a recent dive between Mornington and Frankston, the Nine Network reported today.
The two British aircraft crashed into the bay during a training exercise in July, 1947.
Four people were killed but only one body was recovered at the time, but divers Paul Roadknight and Steve Boneham located the remains of one pilot still inside one of the wrecked aircraft about 20m below the surface of the bay.
They found the remains of another pilot next to the wreck of the second aircraft.
There was no information about the possible whereabouts of the fourth victim.
The wreckage of the two British Royal Navy single engined Fairy Firefly trainers is considered a significant archaeological find.
Mr Roadknight has tracked down the families of the dead pilots and a memorial is planned for next week, on the 60th anniversary of the crash.
Britain's Ministry of Defence is believed to support plans not to disturb the pilots' remains.
A permanent memorial to the victims could be built onshore, close to the crash site.
Heritage Victoria warns that diving near the wrecks is an offence that carries a heavy fine
Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:51 am
Please quote your sources.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/NATIONAL/ ... 97932.html
From AP, Channel 9.
'Southern Australia' in this case is the state of Victoria, in the south east of the continent, not another state, South Australia. It's like saying Florida is southern North America. It is, but it's hardly precise.
What's interesting is that Port Philip Bay, although large, is very shallow (bulk ships need to use regularly dredged channels) and heavily used by yachts etc.
Thanks,
http://www.theage.com.au/news/NATIONAL/ ... 97932.html
From AP, Channel 9.
'Southern Australia' in this case is the state of Victoria, in the south east of the continent, not another state, South Australia. It's like saying Florida is southern North America. It is, but it's hardly precise.
What's interesting is that Port Philip Bay, although large, is very shallow (bulk ships need to use regularly dredged channels) and heavily used by yachts etc.
Thanks,
Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:24 am
I have to admit I do take issue with Britains stance of leaving their war dead where they lie. Especially in shallow, reachable lakes and waterways.
It will only be a matter of time before the site and remains are defiled or disturbed by individuals or the unrelenting forward motion of progress.
Supposedly there is a sunken RN Corsair in a lake in Maine(?) that still has the pilot still aboard. And because of Britian's policy will not be disturbed. Except for looting sport divers and the like.
But hey that's just me.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
It will only be a matter of time before the site and remains are defiled or disturbed by individuals or the unrelenting forward motion of progress.
Supposedly there is a sunken RN Corsair in a lake in Maine(?) that still has the pilot still aboard. And because of Britian's policy will not be disturbed. Except for looting sport divers and the like.
But hey that's just me.
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:09 am
PP589 and TW677, Firefly FR1: 812 NAS HMS Theseus, collided at 800ft whilst forming up, crashed into sea together off Mebourne Australia 20/7/1947. Both crews killed.
Lt Cdr Hearle (Lt Sellars in the back seat) and Lt Walker (CPO Lovatt) COLLIDED, BOTH AIRCRAFT FALLING INTO THE SEA LOCKED TOGETHER - no survivors.
Sorry do not know who was on what one....
Lt Cdr Hearle (Lt Sellars in the back seat) and Lt Walker (CPO Lovatt) COLLIDED, BOTH AIRCRAFT FALLING INTO THE SEA LOCKED TOGETHER - no survivors.
Sorry do not know who was on what one....
Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:22 am
Great that these airman can be laid to rest now, shameful that they lay for so long in not deep water, 10mins flight time from the states capital.
Be interesting to see what state the airframes are in as there is a lot of fishing and dredging going on in port phillp, when you think of what's occurred since 1947....
Be interesting to see what state the airframes are in as there is a lot of fishing and dredging going on in port phillp, when you think of what's occurred since 1947....
Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:23 am
Great that these airman can be laid to rest now, shameful that they lay for so long in not deep water, 10mins flight time from the states capital.
Be interesting to see what state the airframes are in as there is a lot of fishing and dredging going on in port phillp, when you think of what's occurred since 1947....
Be interesting to see what state the airframes are in as there is a lot of fishing and dredging going on in port phillp, when you think of what's occurred since 1947....
Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:16 am
JDK
please "correctly identify" your sources as well? smiles
Your link looks more like Fairfax Digital via the Melbourne Age website to me, rather than AAP and Channel 9? smiles
(although to be fair the story is credited to the Nine Network and AAP by the Age article).
regards
Mark Pilkington
please "correctly identify" your sources as well? smiles
Your link looks more like Fairfax Digital via the Melbourne Age website to me, rather than AAP and Channel 9? smiles
(although to be fair the story is credited to the Nine Network and AAP by the Age article).
regards
Mark Pilkington
JDK Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:51 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please quote your sources.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/NATIONAL/Human-remains-found-in-Port-Phillip-Bay/2007/07/11/1183833597932.html
From AP, Channel 9.
Sat Jul 14, 2007 4:08 am
Hmmm.
Which is what I stated. I provided the link to the article in the age, and noted the following credits supplied by the Age.
I did not post an unattributed text that implies (either deliberately or through carelessness) that it was my report, work and copyright.
Sabredriver's post is legally liable in the unlikely event of Fairfax getting shirty, mine is not.
Regards,
Mark_Pilkington wrote:(although to be fair the story is credited to the Nine Network and AAP by the Age article).
Which is what I stated. I provided the link to the article in the age, and noted the following credits supplied by the Age.
I did not post an unattributed text that implies (either deliberately or through carelessness) that it was my report, work and copyright.
Sabredriver's post is legally liable in the unlikely event of Fairfax getting shirty, mine is not.
Regards,
Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:36 am
JDK,
smiles, I was simply having a cheeky dig "cos the link was from Fairfax in the past one of the Packer's arch rivals rather from Channel 9 etc" and not intending to be too serious about the whole thing.
I note there is a battle of opinions going on in other threads and this "stir" is in isolation of all that, I agree with you that when cutting and pasting (or copying ) from another source it is appropriate either to name and credit it, or simply add a link to it at the end for reader reference.
regards
Mark Pilkington
smiles, I was simply having a cheeky dig "cos the link was from Fairfax in the past one of the Packer's arch rivals rather from Channel 9 etc" and not intending to be too serious about the whole thing.
I note there is a battle of opinions going on in other threads and this "stir" is in isolation of all that, I agree with you that when cutting and pasting (or copying ) from another source it is appropriate either to name and credit it, or simply add a link to it at the end for reader reference.
regards
Mark Pilkington
Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:54 am
This story has been all over the TV here today, and nobody has raised the question of why the airmen wast recovered at the time?
hopeless
hopeless
Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:56 am
This was 1947!! We did noy have side scanning sonar then... I do not know the depth and the complexity of recovery, there may not have been an exact locationn and they were navy personnel , who may have been consigned to the deep ANYWAY.. Had the bodies been recovered..
We are making reference to what happened then to what we could and would do now....
We are making reference to what happened then to what we could and would do now....
Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:20 pm
The wrecks are obviously well hidden, because I don't think the divers accidently stumbled across them. From what I could gather from news reports they had been looking for some time. Therefore we can presume that they're not in a logical spot. This may have been one reason why they weren't located in 1947 immediately after the accident. We know that sinking objects tend to 'glide' underwater and therefore can settle a long way from the point of submersion.
It was good to see that the news reports were shot in such a way as to be unclear where the wrecks are, and the divers aren't saying anything. That should keep away the tourist divers. Some galahs might find them one day, and then I suspect action will have to be taken to protect the remains.
Walrus
It was good to see that the news reports were shot in such a way as to be unclear where the wrecks are, and the divers aren't saying anything. That should keep away the tourist divers. Some galahs might find them one day, and then I suspect action will have to be taken to protect the remains.
Walrus
Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:01 pm
I cannot see any justification for leaving the remains down there. Imagine the outcry if we left a destroyed tank with it's crew on board . They are out of sight - out of mind!
Effectively speaking this isn't a war grave as a state of war didn't exist at the time - the local coroner should order them to be recovered . It was an accident thats all. Now the wrecks are known give them a proper burial
Effectively speaking this isn't a war grave as a state of war didn't exist at the time - the local coroner should order them to be recovered . It was an accident thats all. Now the wrecks are known give them a proper burial