Warbird Information Exchange

Thought some folks here might be able to help Mark out.






Shay
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Semper Fortis

I was flipping through the channels on tv the other night and caught some old 50's movie that was in color. They were showing scenes around a movie studio and they showed a brief clip of a corsair being towed around. I couldn't see any numbers on it. I wonder if it was this bird as it was supposed to be at MGM for many years?

This the Mark Foster that used to fly an A-26 in Denver and was subsequently used in the movie 'Havana'?

Also I thought I heard a number of years ago they were gonna convert this Corsair back to a birdcage configuration since they had the canopy to do it with?

Mark

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Mark Morris

My understanding was that they were going to put the original braced, blown hood on it, which they have. Not sure this airplane ever had a birdcage canopy.

If its a F4U-1A it didn't. IIRC

Maybe that was it, the braced bubble canopy as opposed to the blown canopy it now has.

M

_________________
Mark Morris

Reading this birds history I would guess that it never went overseas and remained stateside by the chronology of this bird. To send out into combat for what seems less than a year and then bring it back really does not make that much sense, especially if it was with a group that saw that much combat.

Just my crazy speculation!

If I recollect correctly another Corsair, FG-1D, 88382 did exactly that. Used for training, then shipped out on a carrier, then came back and was used for Reserve duty before going into the lake. That is if I recollect correctly...

_________________
"They can teach MONKEYS to fly better than that"

http://www.heritageflight.org
http://www.bravo369.org

No...

FG-1D 88303 N700G went from factory to NAS North Island to overseas and came back after the war.
If it went with a carrier group its possible to to have come back during the war. If it was land based it might be more difficult to rotate back to the states.
Rich

I've done some digging and determined that it's very possible, and probably quite likely that BuNo.17799 did serve overseas with a combat squadron.

Mark and I discussed the "missing year" factor via e-mail a few weeks back and I decided I would reference the history cards for the ten planes that preceeded BuNo.17799 off the factory line, and the ten planes that came after her. A quick look at the data showed me that the record keeping process during that time was a bit more chaotic and non-standardized that it would be just a few months down the road. They were apparently still working the inefficiencies out of the system amidst the rush to war.

It was very interesting to note that a number of the aircraft from this time period were missing their records starting from the time they rolled off the line, until August of 1944. Something must have happened in July of 1944 that caused this information to be lost, or to be destroyed. Maybe an attack at sea destroyed a critical bulk of paperwork, or maybe it was just an absent mided clerk. A little more digging will hopefully reveal the answer, as well as the factual history of BuNo.17799 from September 1943 - August 1944.

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F4U-1A BuNo.17789
Accepted: August 31, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS New York, New York (September 9, 1943)
enroute to Pacific Theatre (October 5, 1943)
Pacific Theatre - CFWC (October 23, 1943)
awaiting reconditioning at San Diego (by August 1944)
stricken: September 30, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17790
Accepted: August 28, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (shipped: August 31, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 2, 1943)
VMF-114 (shipped: September 14, 1943)
VMF-441 (shipped: June 9, 1944)
stricken: June 20, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17791
Accepted: August 30, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS New York, New York (shipped: September 6, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 18, 1943)
VMF-217 (shipped: September 29, 1943)
VMF-122 (shipped: February 16, 1944)
stricken: May 31, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17792
Accepted: August 30, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (shipped: August 31, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 2, 1943)
Naumea, New Caledonia (shipped: September 27, 1943)
VMF-222 (November 11, 1943)
VMF-211 (January 18, 1944)
stricken: March 28, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17793
Accepted: August 31, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
*gap in history record
unknown (August 1944 – October 1944)
MCAS Quantico, Virginia - Assembly & Repair / Pool (November 1944 – January 1945)
VBF-95 (February 1945)
unreported (March 1945 – April 1945)
CASU-24 (?)
stricken: May 31, 1945

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17794
Accepted: August 28, 1943
Delivered: September 2, 1943

Service History:
*gap in history record
NAS Jacksonville, Florida – Assembly & Repair (August 1944 – September 1944)
NAS Glenview, Illinois - CQTU (October 1944 – March 1945)
NAS Jacksonville, Florida - pool (April 1945)
NAS Jacksonville, Florida – under reconditioning (May 1945)
NAS Jacksonville, Florida – pool (June 1945)
reconditioned: June 28, 1945
CASU-33 (July 1945)
“over” - *no further records

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17795
Accepted: September 3, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
*gap in history record
VF-5 / OTU (August 1944 – June 1945)
Flight Instrument School (July 1945)
NAS Green Cove, Florida – pool (August 1945 – September 1945)
NAS Clinton, Oklahoma (October 1945)
stricken: October 31, 1945

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17796
Accepted: August 31, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 14, 1943)
VMF-225 (September 125, 1943)
VMF-251 (December 14, 1943)
stricken: 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17797
Accepted: August 30, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (shipped: September 2, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 8, 1943)
Naumea, New Caledonia (shipped: September 27, 1943)
VMF-211 (January 18, 1944)
stricken: March 28, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17798
Accepted: August 31, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS New York, New York (September 6, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (September 20, 1943)
Naumea, New Caledonia (October 2, 1943)
VMF-222 (February 12, 1944)
stricken: May 18, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17799
Accepted: August 31, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
*gap in history record
NAS San Diego, California - Assembly & Repair (August 1944 - October 1944)
unreported (December 1944)
VF-84 (December 1945)
VBF-14 (January 1945)
VBF-98 (February 1945 - March 1945)
CASU-33, NAS Los Alamitos, California (April - June 1945)
VBF-84 "Wolf Gang", NAS San Diego, California (July 1945)
CASU-33, NAS Los Alamitos, California (August 1945)
stricken: August 31, 1945

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F4U-1A BuNo.17800
Accepted: August 30, 1943
Delivered: September 2, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (arrived: September 2, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (arrived: September 9, 1943)
VMF-218 (arrived: September 28, 1943)
Naval Air Operations Training (arrived: July 8, 1944)
NAS Jacksonville, Florida – Assembly & Repair (August 1944)
CQTU / NAS Glenview, Illinois (September 1944)
unknown (October 1944)
CQTU / NAS Glenview, Illinois (November 1944)
stricken: November 30, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17801
Accepted: September 3, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
*gap in history record
NAS San Diego, California - Assembly & Repair (August 1944 – October 24, 1944)
MCAS Quantico, Virginia (October 27, 1944 – November 1944)
VMBF-931 (November 1944 – December 1944)
VBF-95 (January 1945 – February 1945)
VBF-152 (March 1945 – April 19, 1945)
Elizabeth City, North Carolina
Unreported (April 1945)
VBF-3 (May 1945)
stricken: June 30, 1945

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17802
Accepted: August 30, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (shipped: September 2, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 8, 1943)
VMF-217 (shipped: September 29, 1943)
VMF-122 (January 14, 1944)
stricken: May 31, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17803
Accepted: August 30, 1943
Delivered: September 2, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (shipped: September 2, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 9, 1943)
VF-17 “Jolly Rogers” (September 27, 1943)
Pacific Theatre (November 1, 1943)
*gap in history record
unknown: (August 1944 – October 1944)
NAS San Diego, California – pool (November 27, 1944)
stricken: November 30, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17804
Accepted: August 31, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS New York, New York (shipped: September 6, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 12, 1943)
NAS Pearl Harbor, Hawaii (September 29, 1943)
VF-17 “Jolly Rogers” (November 21, 1943)
stricken: December 11, 1943

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17805
Accepted: August 31, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
*gap in history record
VF-85 (August 1944)
CASU-23 (September 1944 – October 2, 1944)
VF-10 (October 2, 1944 – October 4, 1944)
VF-89 (October 4, 1944 – November 1944)
CASU-23 / NAS Atlantic City, New Jersey (November 1944)
VF-88 (December 1944 – January 1945)
ATU / NAS Quonset, Rhode Island (February 1945)
CASU-22 / NAS Quonset Point, Rhode Island (March 1945 – April 1945)
VBF-94B (May 1945)
MCAS Quantico, Virginia – awaiting reconditioning (June 1945)
MCAS Quantico, Virginia – under reconditioning (July 1945 - August 1945)
MCAS Quantico, Virginia – pool (September 1945 – October 31, 1945)
COMFAIRWEST (*probably never delivered)
NAS Clinton, Oklahoma
stricken: November 30, 1945

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F4U-1A BuNo.17806
Accepted: August 31, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (shipped: September 2, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 14, 1943)
Naumea, New Caledonia (shipped: September 30, 1943)
VMF-216 (shipped: December 19, 1943)
stricken: April 11, 1944

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F4U-1A BuNo.17807
Accepted: August 31, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS New York, New York (shipped: September 6, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 11, 1943)
Naumea, New Caledonia (shipped: September 30, 1943)
VMF-211 (shipped: January 14, 1944)
stricken: March 28, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17808
Accepted: August 31, 1943

Service History:
ADU / NAS Port Columbus, Ohio (shipped: September 2, 1943)
NAS San Diego, California (shipped: September 9, 1943)
Naumea, New Caledonia (shipped: September 27, 1943)
VMF-216 (shipped: November 27, 1943)
stricken: April 11, 1944

_____________________________________________________________

F4U-1A BuNo.17809
Accepted: August 31, 1943
Delivered: September 6, 1943

Service History:
*gap in history record
unknown (August 1944 – October 1944)
MCAS Quantico, Virginia – Assembly & Repair (November 1944 – February 1945)
VBF-150 (February 1945)
MCAS Quantico, Virginia - awaiting reconditioning (March 1945 – May 18, 1945)
Elizabeth, North Carolina (May 21, 1945 – May 21, 1945)
CASU-24 / NAS Wildwood, New Jersey (May 1945)
VMF-911 (June 1945 – September 1945)
NAS Clinton, Oklahoma – pool
stricken: October 31, 1945

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

Earlier posting by myself and Rob seem relevent...........
I've read that the hsitory is sketchy but that it served in VF-84 from Dec 1943 thru Jan 1944 and flown in combat during July & August 1945 by VBF-14 and VBF-98. First of all VF-84 was established in May 1944 and commanded by Roger Hedrick former XO of VF-17 so its service in that squadron is not possible. Has for VBF-14 I don't find a record of this unit. VF-14 flew F6Fs on the USS Wasp from Jan thru Nov. 1944. I can also find no VBF-98 I doubt that a elderly F4U-1A would be anywhere near combat in late 1945. Has for the paint job, what up with that?? I've never seen any photographic evidence of a Corsair painted in that matter. Not just in the way the camo was applied but the curly style of the numbers.. Stenciled block number are usually squared off. Also some have reported it to be a earlier birdcage modified to -1A not so it's just a early -1A. I probably had the plexi viewport under the fuselage.

and from Rob............
Of all the Corsair histories I have researched, the deployments recorded on BuNo.17799’s history card are some of the most obscure that I’ve seen. In the vast majority of circumstances, the facts spelled out on the US Navy A/C History Cards can be directly verified through alternate research of the squadrons or aircraft carriers to which the plane in question was assigned. The Navy was very diligent about their record keeping, even if it was somewhat of a crude process back then.

BuNo.17799 was first deployed to the Assembly & Repair station at NAS San Diego, California from August thru October of 1943. I believe this is where some of the post-production modifications were applied to the plane that otherwise had not been implemented into the Vought production line.

By December of 1943 it was listed as being assigned to VF-84. As Jack pointed out, there simply was no “VF-84” in late 1943 – early 1944…or at least US Navy Records show no official record of it. Like the vast majority of the USN Aircraft History Cards, I’ve found the USN Location Records to be extremely accurate as well, and they stand up well to cross references with Squadron and Aircraft Carrier deployment records.

By January of 1944, BuNo.17799 was listed as being assigned to VBF-14. Once again, the USN Location Records show no direct referenced to VBF-14. There was in fact a VF-14 (F6F Hellcat), VB-14 (SB2C Helldiver), and a VT-14 (TBF Avenger) listed as being stationed aboard the USS Wasp. These would be the fighter, bomber, and torpedo sections of Squadron 14, and in the majority of cases you would find that they would travel together as a combined force, especially on a carrier deployment. That leads me to believe that BuNo.17799 might have been associated with Squadron 14, though there are no official records of even a single Corsair accompanying the squadron. During those latter months of 1943, Squadron 14 had been operating along the US East Coast. A quick description of the USS Wasp’s deployment at that time reads as follows:

“Following a shakedown cruise which lasted through the end of 1943, Wasp returned to Boston for a brief yard period to correct minor flaws which had been discovered during her time at sea. On 10 January 1944 the new aircraft carrier departed Boston; steamed to Hampton Roads, Va.; and remained there until the last day of the month…”

By February 1944, BuNo.17799 is listed as having been transferred to VBF-98. Once again, there are no records during that time period alluding to a VBF-98. There was a VB-98 (an SBD dive-bomber squadron), but it had been stationed in the South Pacific Solomon Islands essentially since before BuNo.17799 was ever commissioned. It had previously been known as VC-24, but was redesignated in the field as VB-98 during the first of December. There is no evidence whatsoever that a Corsair of any type was associated with them as well.

By April of 1944, BuNo.17799 was assigned to CASU-33. This particular Carrier Air Service Unit was based at NAS Los Alamitos, California. If BuNo.17799 had in fact spent time in the South Pacific, it was most definitely back in the United States by this point in time.

In July of 1944, BuNo.17799 was assigned to VF-84 "Wolf Gang" Squadron - once again bringing reflection to it’s earlier reported assignment to “VF-84” eight months prior. By this time, VF-84 was well documented as operating from NAS San Diego, California.

BuNo.17799’s final reassignment came in August of 1944 when it was once again returned to CASU-33 at NAS Los Alamitos, California, after which it was stricken from service by the end of that month.

Soon I plan to pull up the microfilm reel containing BuNo.17799’s history card so I can reference any other F4U-1A’s from that time frame that might have shared some of the same deployments. Many times the planes attached to a particular squadron would be redeployed, at least as a partial group, together to their next assignment. With luck I’ll be able to group BuNo.17799 together with planes that arrived or departed some of the same squadrons at the same time, in hoped that the records from those other aircraft will shed some light on the logic behind BuNo.17799's deployments, and maybe even illuminate a possible clerical error on it's card. As for now, much of the early-recorded history on BuNo.17799’s card just doesn’t jibe with other facts of official Navy record.

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Don't touch my junk!!

The fault with my first post nearer to the beginning of this thread is that I simply didn't have enough information.

I presumed that the initial deployment by BuNo.17799 to NAS San Diego took place in 1943 immediately following this aircraft's acceptance by the Navy. I later learned from Mark Foster that the plane was in fact stricken on August 31, 1945. With that, I was able to work backward though the history card and determine that the record of BuNo.17799's deployment to NAS San Diego deployment had actually taken place in 1944 - exactly one year after I had previously presumed. This means that BuNo.17799 had been in service for almost a year before arriving (back) at NAS San Diego.

To prove the theory, I decided to pull the history cards for the ten Corsairs that preceeded BuNo.17799 off the assembly line, and the ten aircraft that followed it (*That information can be found in my post just above). Sure enough, roughly half of the planes in question have records reflecting the same gap in record keeping. I figure something must have happened around July 1944 that wiped out these records, as each one of the history cards with this anomoly pick up again during August 1944.

For now, at the very least, it looks like BuNo.17799 does indeed have about a year worth of US Navy service (September 1943 - July 1944) that remains unaccounted for. By looking at the other aircraft, it's obvious that essentially all of them were sent to active fighter squadrons, including VF-17, VMF-114, VMF-122, VMF-211, VMF-216, VMF-217, VMF-218, VMF-222, VMF-225, and VMF-251. I still need to take a quick look to see if all of these squads were in fact deployed to the South Pacific Theatre during late-1943, early-1944, but the evidence is leaning strongly in favor of BuNo.17799 in fact being a war veteran aircraft.

_________________
Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
robcmears@yahoo.com
http://www.robmears.com

BTW Rob.....
GREAT music

_________________
Don't touch my junk!!

Here's what I have from the USN Overseas Losses Microfilm for BuNos close to 17999. I'd say that it was more than likely that she saw combat with the Marines. Sorry it doesn't look better, I couldn't get it to line up.

BuNo Type Unit Loss Date Base At Loss Location
17786 F4U-1 VMF-441 11 Jul 44 Wotje Central Pacific

17787 F4U-1 VMF-311 2 Jan 44 Wallis South Pacific

17790 F4U-1 VMF-441 8-9 Jun 44 Roi Maloelap
Wyatt, T., 2nd Lt.

17792 F4U-1 VMF-211 18 Jan 44 Torokina South Pacific
Culler, W.R., 1st Lt.

17798 F4U-1 VMF-222 12 Feb 44 Piva Rabaul
Lassiter, C.P., 1st Lt. Missing

17804 F4U-1 VF-17 21 Nov 43 Ondonga Augusta Bay
Pillsbury, C.A., Lt. Missing

17806 F4U-1 VMF-216 19 Dec 43 Torokina Rabaul
Faulkner, Capt. Missing

17807 F4U-1 VMF-211 14 Jan 44 Torokina Rabaul
Landon, N.R., 1st Lt. Missing

17808 F4U-1 VMF-216 27 Dec 43 Torokina South Pacific
Davey, Lt. Killed

Mac