PB4Y-2 N6816D At Chandler Memorial
Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:42 pm
I photographed the tail section of N6816D at Chandler Memorial in April 2007. Anyone know how it wound up at Chandler after crashing at Wenatchee, WA on July 27, 1972? Here's a link to the photo I took in April.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1265343/L/
Ralph
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1265343/L/
Ralph
Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:38 pm
Evening, Ralph.
Walt McKinney
Walt McKinney
Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:52 pm
there is a very good search function on this web site, you might want to try it out sometime
Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:32 pm
The tail section belongs to Pooner......(Rob Kropp)
Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:41 pm
Did anyone pick up the PB4Y-2 sections that the San Diego Aerospace Museum was selling in Trade A Plane?
Tue Sep 25, 2007 8:26 pm
Dear "Group Captain" Matt Gunsch,
Thanks very much for your very thoughtful advice that I might want to try out the website's "very good search function" before I post a mesage. I did so before I posted this message and determined that the tail section had been stored at Buckeye and Mesa before being stored at Chandler Memorial. What I was hoping to determine was how and why it had been moved around to these various locations. I have used this very helpful website in the past to research articles, the most recent being an article on the Naval Museum at Pensacola, FL that appeared in the September/October 2007 issue of Wabirds International. Thanks again for your very thoughful response.
Regards,
Ralph M. Pettersen
Thanks very much for your very thoughtful advice that I might want to try out the website's "very good search function" before I post a mesage. I did so before I posted this message and determined that the tail section had been stored at Buckeye and Mesa before being stored at Chandler Memorial. What I was hoping to determine was how and why it had been moved around to these various locations. I have used this very helpful website in the past to research articles, the most recent being an article on the Naval Museum at Pensacola, FL that appeared in the September/October 2007 issue of Wabirds International. Thanks again for your very thoughful response.
Regards,
Ralph M. Pettersen
Tue Sep 25, 2007 9:40 pm
I guess you need to work on your research skills. Had you checked, you would have found out who owns it and sent him a private message, he is on this site. Guess you just like others to do your work for you. I too have had several stories published, but I do my own research.
Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:46 am
Just a little data on old BuNo 59905 at Memorial... it's really a "tail" of reincarnation, of sorts...
Prior to the mishap, N6816D - or "Moby Dick" as her crews called her - was operated by Wenatchee Air Service out of Washington. Nickname came from her predominantly white paint job and overall chunky appearance as a tanker, which some said was decidedly "whale like."
The website posting hints of a "crash and burn" at Wenatchee, which is only partially true. Airplane had been modified to wet wing configuration as a firebomber, meaning that all original rubber fuel cells in center section and wings had been removed, and center section was sealed and used as one big fuel cell. This was what caused her demise. Airplane caught fire on the runway - generally attributed a a spark caused by an inverter or pump sparking fumes in former bomb bay/spray tank area. Fire consumed center section and cockpit area of a/c before being extingusihed by airport fire crews. Crew was able to exit a/c without harm.
Remains of burned a/c were dragged off of runway and stored until accident investigation was completed. Remains included outer wing panels, tail section and control surfaces, portions of center section, all landing gear, flaps, and damaged engines.
Following accident investigation and subsequent insurance settlement with the owners, remains were given to T & G Aviation of Arizona, which originally operated two PB4Y-2 tankers. The tail section, wing panels, landing gear and oddball other parts deemed useful by T & G mechanics were put on a trailer and hauled back to PHX. The wreckage was originally stored at Buckeye Municipal Airport prior to being transported to Chandler Memorial when the firm relocated in the early 1980s.
Over the years small bits and pieces were used on T & G's remaining -4Y, Charlie 30 (now under restoration at Lone Star Air Museum in Galveston) as needed. Fortunately, there was never a need to change outer wing panels or perform major repairs on their airplane for which the remains of 59905 were procured.
In 1991, Charlie 30 left Memorial Airfield for Galveston, and the pieces of '905 had not been acquired by Lone Star. They remained at the airfield for a few years and were eventually slated for scrapping until purchased by a Mesa businessman.
Over the next decade, various bits and pieces of 59905 found their way into a variety of B-24 Liberator and PB4Y-2 restorations. Landing gear componentry ended up on the Collings Foundation's B-24 J - then known as "All American" as did a few pieces for the CAF's "Diamond Lil." The outer wing panels and ailerons were sent to Australia for Werribee's B-24 M project (they're now hanging on the airplane). Some pieces from the tail section - the tail skid and bumper - were sent to Lone Star and installed on Charlie 30. Finally, the flaps, nose gear assembly and various crew doors and panels were used for the static restoration of the B-24 D on display at Hill AFB by KalAero's staff.
Additional pieces still in storage from this airplane may be used on a PB4Y-2 purchased from the Hawkins and Powers auction a year ago by a Phoenix businessman. In the end, "Moby Dick" has become something akin to an "organ donor" for other airframes and has escaped the fate of the scrapper several times over.
The tail section was moved from Mesa's Falcon Field Airport (FFZ) back to Memorial earlier this year where it had been stored inside a T-hangar for several years, much to the huge dislike of the airport authority. But that's another story...
Prior to the mishap, N6816D - or "Moby Dick" as her crews called her - was operated by Wenatchee Air Service out of Washington. Nickname came from her predominantly white paint job and overall chunky appearance as a tanker, which some said was decidedly "whale like."
The website posting hints of a "crash and burn" at Wenatchee, which is only partially true. Airplane had been modified to wet wing configuration as a firebomber, meaning that all original rubber fuel cells in center section and wings had been removed, and center section was sealed and used as one big fuel cell. This was what caused her demise. Airplane caught fire on the runway - generally attributed a a spark caused by an inverter or pump sparking fumes in former bomb bay/spray tank area. Fire consumed center section and cockpit area of a/c before being extingusihed by airport fire crews. Crew was able to exit a/c without harm.
Remains of burned a/c were dragged off of runway and stored until accident investigation was completed. Remains included outer wing panels, tail section and control surfaces, portions of center section, all landing gear, flaps, and damaged engines.
Following accident investigation and subsequent insurance settlement with the owners, remains were given to T & G Aviation of Arizona, which originally operated two PB4Y-2 tankers. The tail section, wing panels, landing gear and oddball other parts deemed useful by T & G mechanics were put on a trailer and hauled back to PHX. The wreckage was originally stored at Buckeye Municipal Airport prior to being transported to Chandler Memorial when the firm relocated in the early 1980s.
Over the years small bits and pieces were used on T & G's remaining -4Y, Charlie 30 (now under restoration at Lone Star Air Museum in Galveston) as needed. Fortunately, there was never a need to change outer wing panels or perform major repairs on their airplane for which the remains of 59905 were procured.
In 1991, Charlie 30 left Memorial Airfield for Galveston, and the pieces of '905 had not been acquired by Lone Star. They remained at the airfield for a few years and were eventually slated for scrapping until purchased by a Mesa businessman.
Over the next decade, various bits and pieces of 59905 found their way into a variety of B-24 Liberator and PB4Y-2 restorations. Landing gear componentry ended up on the Collings Foundation's B-24 J - then known as "All American" as did a few pieces for the CAF's "Diamond Lil." The outer wing panels and ailerons were sent to Australia for Werribee's B-24 M project (they're now hanging on the airplane). Some pieces from the tail section - the tail skid and bumper - were sent to Lone Star and installed on Charlie 30. Finally, the flaps, nose gear assembly and various crew doors and panels were used for the static restoration of the B-24 D on display at Hill AFB by KalAero's staff.
Additional pieces still in storage from this airplane may be used on a PB4Y-2 purchased from the Hawkins and Powers auction a year ago by a Phoenix businessman. In the end, "Moby Dick" has become something akin to an "organ donor" for other airframes and has escaped the fate of the scrapper several times over.
The tail section was moved from Mesa's Falcon Field Airport (FFZ) back to Memorial earlier this year where it had been stored inside a T-hangar for several years, much to the huge dislike of the airport authority. But that's another story...
Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:12 am
Rob,
Thanks very much for filling in the blanks about this aircraft. I first became interested in Privateers when I interviewed the late Mel Christler about the four Constellations that Christler Flying Service flew in the 1970's. He informed me that he and his partner, Morris Avery, converted and operated most (or all) of the H&P Privateers during the 1960s with Christler-Avery Aviation. Seems like many of the remaining Privateer population have mixed pedigrees which makes them even more entertaining. Thanks again for the information.
Regards,
Ralph
http://www.conniesurvivors.com
Thanks very much for filling in the blanks about this aircraft. I first became interested in Privateers when I interviewed the late Mel Christler about the four Constellations that Christler Flying Service flew in the 1970's. He informed me that he and his partner, Morris Avery, converted and operated most (or all) of the H&P Privateers during the 1960s with Christler-Avery Aviation. Seems like many of the remaining Privateer population have mixed pedigrees which makes them even more entertaining. Thanks again for the information.
Regards,
Ralph
http://www.conniesurvivors.com
Wed Sep 26, 2007 11:48 am
That would be a great starting point for my project! 
Franken-Liberator! A PB4Y tail section. Fabricate some new wing spar if I cant find any. Talk to the guys on Barnstormers and see if they cant help me get a full fuselage together. Ill probably need some other parts too.
Dream the crazy dream. And maybe I'll get to live it.
Franken-Liberator! A PB4Y tail section. Fabricate some new wing spar if I cant find any. Talk to the guys on Barnstormers and see if they cant help me get a full fuselage together. Ill probably need some other parts too.
Dream the crazy dream. And maybe I'll get to live it.