Warbird Information Exchange

These pictures I took with my Kodak Z650 camera at the Geneseo airshow. To me they look good but are they quality pictures? Since I got my D80 I am hoping that I can take simular shots from the air. To me when I take a picture I do not want the prop to look like one large disk/CD. I like how I got it on the Corsair picture. The props are still visiable but yet you can still tell that the prop is moving. Is this something I should long for as my goal(I like it like that)? I know some of you like it as a full disk and I am not sure which is right and which is wrong.

I like this effect of the prop that I got. Is this something you pros out there look for? Will I be able to get similar sky captures from my D80?



But then once in awhile I got a prop like this. Almost like it wasn't moving. What did I do wrong? I did the same thing as my Corsiar pic.?


Thanks,
Nathan

These are with your new camera?

Here's what you want to do. For warbirds, set your camera in Shutter Speed priority. This means that you will chose the shutter speed, and the camera will chose the aperture. Set your speed no faster than 1/200th. When you use a faster shutter speed than that, the shutter speed will freeze the props.

Remember when you change to shooting jets to go for a faster shutter speed.

*edited to add*

Reading is fundamental. You shot them with your old camera. Sorry about that. Apply the above to your new camera.

[/sheepish grin]

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"Anyway, the throat feels a bit rough...the legs have gone...but I'm still able to chant, so let's get going."

Joe Strummer, 1999

In my limited knowledge of photography, shutter speed is a big deal on this subject.
As long as yours is variable you shouldn't have any problem.

No these pictures were taken with my Kodak Z650. I just got my D80 the other day.

Oops, reading everything first is important as I just did the same thing.

I guess to my original question....what is everyone looking for with the props? Full disk? Still? Partly visible?

Thanks,
Nate

Nathan,

Alot of photographers go for as much prop blur or prop arc as possible. Of course it depends on the prop speed, but you often see shutter speed recommendations that range between 1/60 to 1/250 of a second. For a plane reving it's engine on the ground, the slow speeds will give a good prop arc. When the plane is moving, especially at flight speeds, you will have to pan the camera with the plane to have a chance of a sharp plane picture. I generally shoot planes at 1/250 of second to give myself a chance at a sharp picture with some prop blur. Somedays I have a fair amount of success and other days my pans aren't so great. You will have to experiment with different shutter speeds to find the balance between prop blur and clarity that pleases you! At the Mustang Gathering I failed to reset my camera speed after shooting some of the jets (shoot them at the highest speed you can) and ended up with some super sharp pictures of Princess Elizabeth and Twighlight Tear that had frozen props ....... so now I can practice using post processing to blur the props.

Good Luck,

Jeff

PS Practice, practice and practice some more your panning techique for prop planes.

Just a footnote, Jeff: the radial blur works well for prop blurring in post. Center the blur on the hub. Easier against a sky background than against the plane itself, though...then you have to get creative.


I found I was getting away with 1/350th at GML, although I think 1/250th is best. But 1/350th really helped me keep the telephoto pans crisper. If you have image stabilization, 1/250th or less would be the sweet spot while they are in the air...slower (a lot slower) when they are taxiing.

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What is red, furry and on your six?

Nathan...Everybody's right. Shutter speed, shutter speed, shutter speed.
HOWEVER...as Jeff said (and others will concur) for airborne shots PANNING is paramount. At Duxford this year, I had shutter speed of 1/250 which gave me exactly the prop blur I wanted, BUT the panning I did really sucked so the airplane was just as blurred as the prop. I'd show you some of what I did but I was so pi$$ed, I saved the good pictures and erased the rest. (About 400 pics.)
The shutter speed, you can set and forget. The panning, you must practice.
One more thing. I don't know if all digital auto-focus cameras do this but...mine (Canon 20D) in multi-shot mode, does not re-focus between each shot. It focuses on the first shot and retains that setting for all the subsequent shots. (Sure does waste card space.)
At faster shutter speeds, this lack of re-focus is not too noticeable. At slower speeds, it's a disaster. If you go to multi shot mode, be sure to crank up the shutter speed.

Mudge the inept

(Do you have to be "ept" before you can be IN "ept"?)

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Land of the free because of the brave

Apart from the technical points from everybody else that were right on, I believe Jeff said above the most important thing to remember:

that pleases you!

Anyway, you will find people that will dislike even the picture you believe is your greatest ever ! So yes, technique is important to know, to better forget about it later and do the shots YOU like.

Then, if we like them too, it's a bonus !

Just my two cents of course... opinions will differ and it's okay.

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Michel C
Thousands of a/c pics at Passion-Aviation

Thanks everyone for the input. I think some of it went over my head but I think I get the idea.

As to the two pictures I posted......are they good or not? Whats good and whats wrong with them?

Thanks,
Nathan

Nathan
Invest in good glass! Do (not) buy cheap lenses! They make a huge difference in picture quality. If you stick with Nikon and buy the best lenses you should not have to re-buy them or upgrade like you will with the camera body ( a very sad fact of life, I can’t wait to leave my Canon XT behind).

You really want something at least 300mm for flying shots. If you have to compromise at first that is fine, I think most of us did that. But When I upgraded to the Canon 100-400 lens, I knew it was worth every penny! I plan to upgrade my wide angle shots as soon as I can.

Tim

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www.tailhookstudio.com

Nathan,

The pictures you posted were good, solid efforts if your objective is a clear definition of the planes details. If your objective was prop blur, then you should have used a slower shutter speed. Hopefully as you get more practice, you'll be able to accommodate both goals better. Personally, I found your pictures enjoyable and well worthy of a post here on WIX as prop blur is not a major factor to me when the planes are on the ground. I do like at least some minimal blur when the planes are in the air. But that's just my taste. Remember, unless you are taking pictures to sell to client, take the pictures that you enjoy! Also, have fun and try new things.

Remember, many of the truly great digital images you see have been considerably improved with post processing. I've been digital for about 20 months now and I'm just starting to understand how to post process for the look I want. Learning to adjust color balance, contrast, brightness and sharpness will improve most pictures. Try different adjustments to discover the "look" that pleases you the most.

I'd be willing to bet that Tim meant to say DON'T buy cheap glass. Since you have a Nikon, stick with Nikon glass. Yeah...yeah...it ain't cheap. Trust me, BTDT. I tried to save a few $$ and when I finally got the message, it cost me more in the long run to replace all the "junk" with quality (Canon) glass.
Bite the bullet and get the best stuff available. You won't regret it.

Mudge the experienced

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Land of the free because of the brave

Shutter speed is important for prop blur on shots, but keep in mind the size of the lens and how much zoom your are putting into it. I have a Sigma 50-500 (Which is good non-Nikon glass, by the way). The lower your shutter speed, the lower your percentage of clear, crisp shots. With the 50-500 at full zoom, 250 gives good prop blur, but the good/bad percentage is lowered. I experimented with this at the Camarillo show. The first day was 250 and below. I had about 40% of my shots of any reasonable quality. I upped to 320-400 for day 2 and the good quality was a higher percentage.

With lower shutter speed, you need to practice and use panning, as has been stated. Here are a couple of examples.

This was at 1/400. Not great prop blur, but obvious motion. The rest of the airplane is good and crisp though.


For air-to-air, I use a 28-80, which makes it easy to shoot at 1/125 and below. I shot this at 1/100


While I love a full prop arc, I love having good, crisp shots too. I'll take a little less prop blur for a good shot. I hate it when everything look good, but the whole airplane is soft. It's a trade-off, and go with what you like.

No, I really want you all to buy the cheapest and dirtiest glass you can. That way it makes me look like I know what I'm doing with a camera.

I corrected my post to say "do not". I hate proof reading!

Tim

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www.tailhookstudio.com

Mudge,

I'd suggest that this is because of the settings you're using, rather than the camera itself per se.

I'm back to using my 20D (as my new 30D has had to pay a visit to the hospital for poorly Canons after less than 4 months ) and it certainly does focus continuously between shots. I'm presuming you have yours set on 'One Shot' focusing mode. You need to change that to 'AI Servo' for flying shots, and set it to focus on the centre spot, you will then find you dramatically increase the number of 'keepers' that you shoot!