The Navy's most well guarded wreck.

Shay · **Posted:** Tue Nov 09, 2004 8:21 pm

This wreck is located within 2 miles from my work in the Hampton Roads Chesapeake Bay. Been meaning to ask the divers I work with if they have ever dove on it.

Mishap:
21 MAR 43 A/C: PB2Y-2 Location: NAS Norfolk, VA Strike: Yes BUNO: 7054 Cause: Confidental test; Ruff water landings, sank 2mi.N of the entrance to Little Creek,Va; 3/engines recovered: "DBR" Pilot Lt.Cmdr Jay S. Anderson/Minor inj, Acmm John Perry Shell/Missing, and 6/Ok

I figure with it lying between Ft. Monroe, NOB Norfolk and right out in front of NAB Littlecreek that it would be difficult to get at. It is possible that it's still there. On guy at work remembered hearing about about an aircraft wreck just off of NAB Littlecreek, but wasn't sure. Then again depending on how deep it is and how close to the shipping lane it might have been cleared when they dredged the lane. Might be interesting to find out the whole story. Maybe someone here know the story.

Shay

Rob Mears · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:05 am

I thought you may be referring to the NHC itself. :wink:

Scott Rose · **Posted:** Wed Nov 10, 2004 9:09 pm

Rob Mears wrote:

I thought you may be referring to the NHC itself. :wink:

Shay · **Posted:** Thu Nov 11, 2004 9:41 am

No I only mean't with it's close proximity to 2 Naval Bases. That if the NHC wanted to prevent anyone from raising it or portions that the response would be swift. Of course I'm not sure how the call would be recieved by Norfolk or Littlecreek. NHC calls: Hey can you stop training and actively protecting our country and go arrest these American citizens swimming around an old wreck out in the bay? Norfolk and Littlecreek C.O.s say: You want me to do what??!! NHC say: Uh yeah, they're breaking this little law we made. Nor. & L.C. say: I'm not sure I understand. Do they pose some security or terroristic threat? NHC: Umm I don't think so but you never really can tell. You guys better go check. Nor. & L.C. : This is a joke right? Stand clear this net and stop wasting my time. .......I wish everyone would not take the NHC seriously not let them put surpurflous laws into being. Naval Historical Center has turned into a oxymoron. Seems to me that they do more to condemn history than to preserve it. But that's just me.

Shay

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:03 am

I bet it would take months for them to notice that "you" swam around a piece of their priceless treasure they are maintaining! My experience with the Navy is they really don’t care at that level, until pushed by some bureaucrat who can wave a star or a new ribbon in their face. Then its “Flies on… “

airnutz · **Posted:** Fri Nov 12, 2004 8:04 am

Weellll....ya wouldn't have to go swimmin'...at first. It might be a good
time to form the "Friends of the Chesapeake Society". A group dedicated
to the preservation of the waters of the 'Peake! While they cruised the
bay taking "water samples"..they could tow along a magnetom...errr..uhh..
a thermometer and salinity checker! Of course if some obstruction
was found on the bottom, then it would have to be checked...so as not to
endanger the livelyhood of the fisherman.

And...so as to not scare off the fish, then it might be better to investigate
"the hazard" with a little wetsub.....might be handy to befriend an
"airminded" SEAL or two.....

Shay · **Posted:** Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:04 am

airnutz
Or befriend the folks at MUDSU 2 (Mobile Underwater Diving Salvage Unit 2). They're the guys that worked on raising the USS Monitor Turret. And they are located conviently on NAB Littlecreek and across the parking lot from my work. Only problem with that is at that point I'm sure the NHC would hear about and get involved. Oh well

Shay

airnutz · **Posted:** Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:57 am

This is a clandestine...errr...I mean ...low-profile mentorship of the
indiginous eco-strata. We don't want to scare the fish or the fishermen!
Of course, any retired diver or salvor with their heart in the right place
would be welcome. If they were sickkened by the manner of the
PBM-5(?, rob knows))...bungle at Lake Washington, then they're "in" with me!

SaxMan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 24, 2004 10:20 pm

Are there other airplanes at the bottom of the Chesapeake that have been located? It seems to me that there must be a number of planes on the bottom. I know the USS Charger, a training carrier, operated in the Chesapeake doing carrier quals for novice Navy pilots. I've seen pictures of TBMs either ditching alongside or being pushed over the side of the Charger. While they may not be as well preserved as the Lake Michigan planes, they are probably still down there.

Also, with at least two major Naval Air Stations (NAS Norfolk and NAS Patuxent River), as well as the Middle River complex for the Martin factory in close proximity to the Chesapeake Bay, I imagine a few planes that were being flown out of those places ended up in the Chesapeake Bay, too.

bdk · **Joined:** Sun May 02, 2004 1:16 am **Posts:** 11324

Col. Rohr wrote:

Maybe its time we form some sort of Historical research a recover team that all we do is go out and rescue US Navy Aircraft. I like to see NHC fight that one in court. Considering there job discribtion is to preserve and maintain Naval Histroy and to recover said History.

Hey! There ya go!!! Create a non-profit society to recover this stuff and then GIVE it to the NHC. Then they wouldn't have to use all those attorneys to try to confiscate it. They wouldn't know what to do with all the stuff! They would have to sell or trade it- or let it rot in their parking lot in full view of everybody.

airnutz · **Posted:** Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:18 pm

BDK
I still have a coupla Christmas visits to do, but I popped-in to see what
was happening.I made a few replys a few minutes ago..logged-off..and was on my way. Your post was the last I read, and I mulled it over...NHC,
slowly I turn..step, by step..inch, by inch..Back to the computer!

Yesterday, I made the comment here, that I try to make "intelligent
offerings" here. Afterwards, I realized that, that is not true. 3 letters,
NHC..throw me into fits of "un-intelligible rant"!!! My carotid and jugular
veins, "bulge out" like braided hydraulic lines when I hear NHC! The
expletives are voluminous!!!!....sigh...well, you guys get the idea. I will
be a good boy,...today.., even NHC gets some Festivus....

About your idea BDK,
It's a Great idea. Aviation folks and aviation-knowledgeable salvage guys
are the best folks, IMOP..to recover aircraft. But, WHO do you think will
oversee the recoveries? The same, self-appointed one-stop-shopping
permit dispenser...regardless of previous service..the NHC! These
bureaucrats, have displayed in the past that they are precisely the WORST
people to be in this position of control. I'm for getting Vets like John
McCain, John Glenn etc. "onboard" this issue to have it reversed.

We are being told by our government..both parties, mind you..they are
for smaller government interdiction in citizenry and privatization. But then
we get invasive, draconian legislation like NHC's "slipped by us"...and then
FORCED to live with it!!...Nope, drag out the Congressmen, Senators, and
Lawyers!

War Graves
This is the "card" they thrash us with when the issue comes into discussion. Using, that logic(?), then a "good-bit" of the Navy Fleet should
have been abandoned, and scuttled during WW2...or any war for that
matter!!! We would have lost the wars, if NHC had control!
How can recovery of the Hunley, Monitor, etc. have precedence..but
everything else left to rot?? Regardless of whether the citizen-soldier died
in the aircraft, I feel it should be raised and honored! If the lad or another
of the crew died during operations, then they should be honored in name
on the aircraft when it is restored or displayed. If a part of the craft
that is recovered is used on another machine..then the honors could be
passed on.

Recover the Lads and Ladies remains to their family, and honor the
machine in their memory!

The only fear that these people could have of misuse of artifacts...is
that of being hacked-up to fly around-the-pylons of Reno, or some
similar misuse. I've mentioned numerous time in rant... "paid for in
Blood and Bonds"...but it is true...they are are OUR relics!! WE allowed
the creation of Historic Oversight agencies to save history...not to
selectively Save/Rot the history!!! It has become all to common these
days for the "tail to wag the dog"..people are getting complacent and
giving up..."Oh well, pity, that's just the way it is." Rubbish!!!

WE pay for these agencies...We the People should have some say in the
spirit of execution of our will!
fin...

Okay, guys/ladies...Hydraulic pressure is in the red-zone, the stainless
webbing on my lines are "snapping"..I've been good too long. I'm late...
Later...be safe..have a great holiday!

airnutz · **Posted:** Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:28 pm

If F4F's were somehow intermixed with the P-38 recoveries going in the
"Manila ravine"...then they would be "fair" for private ownership. Right?

airnutz · **Posted:** Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:52 pm

Went back over my former post on the NHC...Sigh...I can't discuss them
without "blithering"! Back to crayons and paper..

TimAPNY · **Posted:** Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:45 pm

F4F, What F4F? I didn't see any F4F or F6F, F4U, PBY... :wink:

JBoyle · **Posted:** Sat Dec 25, 2004 9:42 pm

Since someone metioned it, what DID happen to the PBM in Seattle?

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The Navy's most well guarded wreck.

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