St Louis F-15C Mishap Report

[hsperdue]

All-

The Safety report is out (just the facts) and on the web. Excellent animation of the accident sequence. I haven't read the report yet... but it looks like Mick 2 (the accident airplane) realized he had a problem.. he was offensive on a BFM 9000' Perch setup, after about a quarter turn he eases off the g and rolls out, starts a Knock It Off call and then the breakup happens.

This is what Safety Investigations do... don't speculate, figure it out and then report it... takes time to do it right...

http://www.acc.af.mil/aibreports/index.asp

gunny

[Mark Nankivil]

Thanks Gunny for the link - I've been looking for it.

Enjoy the Day! Mark

[warbird1]

Hey Gunny, thanks for that link.

Did you ever get checked out in the P-38? Are you still going to fly "Ruff Stuff"?

[hsperdue]

Hey Gunny, thanks for that link.

Did you ever get checked out in the P-38? Are you still going to fly "Ruff Stuff"?

Yep, thanks for asking. I did get checked out and we're going to fly it on the airshow circuit this year... not sure how many yet. Stay tuned.

gunny

[warbird1]

Hey Gunny, thanks for that link.

Did you ever get checked out in the P-38? Are you still going to fly "Ruff Stuff"?

Yep, thanks for asking. I did get checked out and we're going to fly it on the airshow circuit this year... not sure how many yet. Stay tuned.

gunny

Awesome, congratuations!

Be sure to give us lots of updates and reports. I believe I can speak on behalf of the entire WIX forum, when I say that all of us would really appreciate a first-hand, 1st person, new P-38 pilot perspective on what it's like to fly the plane. Neat stuff, like little quirks, characteristics and such are what make reading those really interesting!

Who checked you out? I would guess either Eldridge or Hinton.


P.S. You might want to check your six often, as there is a crazy P-38 stalker here named Mudge.

[hsperdue]

Awesome, congratuations!

Be sure to give us lots of updates and reports. I believe I can speak on behalf of the entire WIX forum, when I say that all of us would really appreciate a first-hand, 1st person, new P-38 pilot perspective on what it's like to fly the plane. Neat stuff, like little quirks, characteristics and such are what make reading those really interesting!

Who checked you out? I would guess either Eldridge or Hinton.

I've thought about doing something like that... but wasn't sure if anyone would be interested in my views.

Steve Hinton did my checkout... he is a great guy... I wouldn't mind having him on my wing when the shooting starts<g>...

gunny

[warbird1]

I've thought about doing something like that... but wasn't sure if anyone would be interested in my views.

Steve Hinton did my checkout... he is a great guy... I wouldn't mind having him on my wing when the shooting starts<g>...

gunny

I don't think you have to worry at all about a lack of interest regarding a P-38 pilot report. We have several warbird owners and pilots here who give pilot reports on various aircraft such as the Mustang, Corsair, Spitfire, Skyraider, several bombers, but none have given a report on the P-38. AFAIK, there are no current P-38 pilots who are members of WIX, unless they are lurking and choose not to be public.

You could be the first to report on the P-38!

Start a new thread and put in detail what it's like to fly a P-38. I would be willing to be the interest in that would surprise you, especially if you are interactive and answer questions that people have. I have a lot of questions regarding flying the P-38 if you choose to accept this assignment.......


......this thread will self-destruct in 30 seconds........

[hsperdue]

I don't think you have to worry at all about a lack of interest regarding a P-38 pilot report. We have several warbird owners and pilots here who give pilot reports on various aircraft such as the Mustang, Corsair, Spitfire, Skyraider, several bombers, but none have given a report on the P-38. AFAIK, there are no current P-38 pilots who are members of WIX, unless they are lurking and choose not to be public.

You could be the first to report on the P-38!

Start a new thread and put in detail what it's like to fly a P-38. I would be willing to be the interest in that would surprise you, especially if you are interactive and answer questions that people have. I have a lot of questions regarding flying the P-38 if you choose to accept this assignment.......


......this thread will self-destruct in 30 seconds........

I'll give it a shot over the next few days. Remember, I'm new to the P-38... so I'm no expert. But it was a hoot!

gunny

[LadyO2Pilot]

CONGRATS !!!!!!!!

would love to hear of your exploits in coming season....and look forward to seeing you at a few in TX

[warbird1]

I'll give it a shot over the next few days. Remember, I'm new to the P-38... so I'm no expert. But it was a hoot!

gunny

Thanks! Don't worry, we'll cut you some slack. We'll take that into consideration when we start asking you about serial numbers on generators. (Inside joke)

I, we, look forward to hearing about your P-38 experiences!

[John Ceglarek]

No offense, but this thread got seriously hijacked. If we can manage to get back to the subject, I'd like to hear what our F-15 drivers think about the possibility that the fleet could lose a significant proportion of aircraft permanently. Some reports are stating that around 200 F-15s may never fly again. Is this a real possibility, or just a worse-case scenario thats not likely to occur?

John

[hsperdue]

No offense, but this thread got seriously hijacked. If we can manage to get back to the subject, I'd like to hear what our F-15 drivers think about the possibility that the fleet could lose a significant proportion of aircraft permanently. Some reports are stating that around 200 F-15s may never fly again. Is this a real possibility, or just a worse-case scenario thats not likely to occur?

John

Sorry.... A very real possibility... and a disaster of huge proportions to the USAF on many different fronts. The cynic will point to this problem and say this is just being used as a reason to buy more F-22s... I say the cynic does not recall the provenance of the F-22 program... a program that was started in the late 70's/ early 80's with a targeted IOC of the 90's. Congress has put off, pushed back, trimmed, restructured the F-22 until it is an incredibly expensive alternative... all in the name of making it 'affordable'... it is a failure of Congress, the "Peace Dividend" procurement holiday of the 90's and the unsustainable operations tempo since the 1st Gulf War.

At best it will be a very expensive fix just to get a few of those targeted 180 airplanes back in the air.

gunny

[RickH]

Wonder how long it will take to manufacture acceptible longerons and do the refit. Also wonder how many will be candidates for repair or how many will be cleared for one time, 1 G flights, to AMARC ?

[hsperdue]

Wonder how long it will take to manufacture acceptible longerons and do the refit. Also wonder how many will be candidates for repair or how many will be cleared for one time, 1 G flights, to AMARC ?

The short answer... years... many...

The 1g flights to Tuscon would happen much easier.... there or Warner-Robbins.

g

[T2 Ernie]

Here's an interesting tidbit I picked up elsewhere:

January 16, 2008
AFA members and Congressional Staffers, many of you have commented favorably on the "elevator speech numbers" I sent you.

It's January ... so here are some revealing data on the "State of the Air Force."

Fighter Aircraft - average age: 20 years; average flight hours 5400+

Bomber Aircraft - average age: 32 years; average flight hours 11,400+

Tanker aircraft - average age: 44 years; average flight hours 18,900+

C2 Fleet - average age: 22 years old; average flight hours 32,000

ISR Fleet (excluding UAV) - average age: 30 years old; average flight hours 18,000


Key Groundings/Restrictions

F-15A-D - 163 of 441 are grounded for structural issues

B-52 - 6 are grounded - past due PDM grounding date - authorized a one-time flight to the bone-yard.

EC-130 - 2 of 14 are grounded due to center wing box cracks

C-130E - 3 are grounded and 13 are restricted due to Service life and wing cracks

KC-135Es - 26 of 86 are grounded due to engine strut corrosion.

AC-130U - 4 of 17 are restricted due to lack of 30MM weapons

B-2 - entire fleet is restricted due to windshield bolt hole cracks

C-5s - 39 of 108 are restricted due to crown skin restrictions (weight limiting)


Additionally:

219 of 223 F-15Es have training restrictions due to vertical stab structural issues

Majority of Block 25/30/32, block 40/42, and block 50/52 F-16s need structural modifications

All 356 A-10s will need new wings and new aircraft skin - many have landing gear issues ... and all need new engines.

C-130Hs have Center Wing Box issues

C-32As have bulkhead structural issues.

Looking across the FYDP - between 2008-2013 - the Air Force will divest itself of 749 aircraft and procure only 698 aircraft (260 of which are UAVs).

To give you the idea of the scale of all of this:

When the AF grounded its 600+ F-15 fleet, it grounded more aircraft than the entire F/A Navy. The F-15s it presently has grounded equate to a bit more than 3 aircraft carriers of aircraft.

The 356 A-10s that need renovations equates to more aircraft than the fixed wing USMC

The Air Force has about 5800 aircraft ... and presently about one-third are either grounded or restricted in one way or another
The central important part of this data is that this is not a third-world Air Force ... And the question we should ask ourselves, why don't we fund it to ensure our children and grandchildren are safe and secure?

2nd Subject -

Chief of Staff White Paper - Gen Moseley published an exceptional White Paper ... which lays out the strategic foundations for the Air Force of the future. If you haven't seen it, you can find it on the AFA website: http://dailyreport.afa.org/NR/rdonlyres ... _paper.pdf

My favorite quotes in it are:

"No modern war has been won without air superiority. No future war will be won without air, space and cyberspace superiority." Page 2.

"With the oldest inventory in history, battered by 17 years of continuous combat, the Air Force's ability to fulfill its missions is already being tested." Page 2

"... our reliance on assured access to space will increase exponentially." Page 8

"The Air Force is smaller in December 2007 than it was in December 1941." Page 10
For your consideration.

Mike

Michael M. Dunn, Lt Gen (Ret)
AFA President/CEO